.45 Super or 460 Rowland on SB1?

[jkpq45]

Hypothesis: It takes a 0.476" diameter case head run up to ~42 ksi to equal the breech thrust of a 3.5" 12 ga (roughly 7500 lb).

Given that the .460 Rowland runs at 40 ksi, any reason I couldn't put one (or a 28 ksi .45 Super) on an SB1 frame?

Thanks, all!
jkpq45

[petemi]

Why?  You're talking about a custom rifle....spend another 50 bucks and put it on a SB2. 

This whole SB1 vs. SB2 that comes up here every five minutes gets tiring.  Use Pete's Rule..."If it is a center fire rifle...put it on a SB2 frame."  For some damned inexplicable reason it seems to work

When I was a kid, my parents had an ocean front summer home on the Jersey shore.  I used to laugh at what I called "Nickle Millionaires"   They had wonderful summer homes, but they'd migrate to the shore every weekend, carrying their coffee maker, pots and pans, linens, towels etc. etc.  They could afford a half million dollar home on the ocean, but can't buy another coffee pot???

It's the same deal with the Hands.  Why are  people sitting around trying to juggle pressures?  You're nickle millionaires.  Get off your butts and buy some SB2s and be done with it.

Pete

[quickdtoo]

It'll may work fine with a smaller rifle size firing pin on the SB1 frame, but the higher pressure handgun rounds with pistol primers are a well documented problem with fat shotgun firing pins and primer flow into the pin hole and cratered or pierce primers, many here have had problems with 357 Maxi loads that are just 40kpsi or less, so breech thrust isn't the only issue.

Another thing to consider is the breech thrust of the 12ga is spread over a much larger surface area which could very well be an issue for the standing breech face with the same pressure on a smaller surface area, there have been a few cracked breech faces reported here even on SB2 frames with high pressure chamberings, applying those forces to a cast iron frame could cause catastrophic in failure as opposed to an eventual failure with warning signs on the much stronger steel SB2 frame. For the Rowland I'd recommend using an SB2 frame for the same reason we've always recommended an SB2 for the 445 Supermag. 

Tim

[MSP Ret]

I have fired .45 Supers out of my .45 ACP custom Handi barrel mounted on an SB1 small firing pin frame with no problems....<><....

[Spanky]

I keep hearing the warnings about catastrophic failures of SB1 frames but I've never seen one... never even seen a picture of one. I saw the real old shotgun frame in the FAQ's that the firing pin came out of but never seen any damage to a breech face on an SB1. Maybe it's like Bigfoot... it's out there somewhere but nobody's found one yet.
Anyhow I'm with Pete on this one... if you're gonna go custom get a rifle frame and be done with it... no worries that way.
 
I'm kinda curious about these two rounds... wonder how they compare to trapdoor 45-70 loads. I'm gonna have to do some research.    Just kiddin' fella's... don't get all wound up.
 
 
 
Spanky

[cwlongshot]

I agree.

Based solely on pressure of <40k you will likely be just fine on a SB1.

BUT as it's a custom setup and your likely building it best you can just start with the stronger SB2.

My maxi is an original. It's a pre SB classification. Same as my 44 mag Shariki. It's a small pin cast iron frame. Zero issues.

I still use a couple SB1 receivers cause I have them. One is on my 17 Hornet and a second is a dedicated Versa PAC Maggie receiver.

CW

[bikerbeans]

I have shot factory 45 Super out of my liner barrel 45ACP Handi and my frame is a large f-pin SB1.  No problems with cratering or flowing of the primers.  However, the 45 Super is only about 28K so nothing near the 460 Rowland's 40K.  My thought is if you want to want to really push a .452" bullet out of a Handi rifle it would be cheaper to buy a 45 BC Carbine and ream it too 454Cas or 460 S&W.  My favorite load out of my 45ACP handi is a 200g LSWC over a massive charge of 3.5g of 700x, good for about 800 fps if I ain't shooting into a headwind. 

Also, finding either 45 Super or 460 Rowland brass can be tough.  The Rowland brass is slightly longer than the 45 ACP and 45 Super brass but the OAL is the same so that the Rowland will load, chamber and fire in a 1911.  I would look at the throat spec on the Rowland to see if you could load it longer in a single shot without having to "throat" your chamber.   


BB

[tacklebury]

Neither round holds a candle to Uploaded .45 Colt, .454 Casull or .460 S&W.  I don't know why it'd be worth trying to go that route.  I'd love a .45 ACP barrel, but it's never been worth the expense or time to make a stub.  It'd be as a nifty item not a needed one. 

[cwlongshot]

Neither round holds a candle to Uploaded .45 Colt, .454 Casull or .460 S&W.  I don't know why it'd be worth trying to go that route.  I'd love a .45 ACP barrel, but it's never been worth the expense or time to make a stub.  It'd be as a nifty item not a needed one. 

My sentiments exactly.

CW

[petemi]

I was 100 feet from the small arms range and the armory was on the other side of the wall from my office for three years while I was at Cecil Field, FL in the Navy..  I shot the 1911, Thompsons,  and Grease Gun for a long time.  I shot my best with the 1911.  We had a superior Ordnanceman that was a wizard.  He was captain of the Pistol team, and hand tuned every .45 we had.  But, ya know what, I don't miss the caliber.  I have absolutely no use for a .45ACP in a Handi....even forgetting about the expense of a stub or rebore.  On the other hand, If a wanted a carry weapon, it would be a .45ACP.  The round still does what it was created for and that was to stop big bad dudes.  It can and will do that.

Pete

[gcrank1]

For me a 45ACP Handi would be a partner for my revolver, and shoot the same load, a full charge cast bullet @ about 830fps, a sub-sonic and pleasant carbine. If I had a 45C revolver it would, of course, make sense to have the carbiine chambered the same.
BTW, the 45Cowboy brass has the 45ACP body and 45C rim, ideal for this application.