Author Topic: Planning my next Handi (Read 1129 times)

geezerbiker · « **on:** February 16, 2014, 03:25:19 AM »

Since the powers at be at H&R won't make the .44 mag with a 1 in 20 twist barrel I'm thinking my next Handi will be a .357 mag. I want to be able to shoot heavy bullets slow because if it's a good year and I can scrape up the money, I'm finally going to buy a suppressor. I've been talking with the guys at the local class 3 dealer about it and I've been told to budget about a grand for the suppressor. I've wanted one since I was a kid and for years the crazy crap the feds puts us through to get one was more than I was willing to deal with but I'm now willing to do it once...

I don't want to deal with the .300 ACC Blackout because of the high cost of brass or forming dies to make it from .223. The .357 mag should do with all commonly available components. Now the question, any of your with .357 Handi's have you ever tried subsonic loads with heavy bullets. If so, how was the accuracy?

Tony

twoshooter · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2014, 03:50:26 AM »

My experience was with cast and I don't know if that effects a suppressor. I will tell you that making 300 brass from 223 is no chore, except for cutting it off. I have a 358 dia Lee mold for 185 gr bullet, and I have shot 3 gr of Unique with that, it is very quiet (no supressor) and was about .850 at 50 yards. I just loaded it to 357 OAL in 38 SP cases.

gendoc · « **Reply #2 on:** February 16, 2014, 04:04:51 AM »

c-III in mag...no not me !!!!......i'll never tell---nope I don't recalect......naw

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #3 on:** February 16, 2014, 06:12:34 AM »

Mine is crazy accurate with sub sonic loads. The company I checked out for just this app make a suppressor that the hole is offset and it is easy to clock the can so you can use factory Iron sights. I think it is called an Osprey, it is accually listed as for 9mm but I called them an they said no problem, just DO NOT shoot any magnums out of it. It'll blow it apart.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.silencerco.com%2Fosprey%2F&ei=wDcBU_H1FeTj2QXhj4CQBw&usg=AFQjCNGRv3gaDtnvXh_gcwlowoPTBe04Lg&bvm=bv.61535280,d.b2I

Dinny · « **Reply #4 on:** February 16, 2014, 08:43:01 AM »

I use 4gr of Trail Boss and shoot a 230gr bore riding bullet that resembles a wadcutter in 357 Max brass. Accuracy is 1" or less to 50yds. I have plenty of those bullets if you want to try some.

Thanks, Dinny

YRUpunting? · « **Reply #5 on:** February 16, 2014, 09:04:04 AM »

I'd do some more research on the 300 blackout before you make a decision. Brass runs about 30 cents each and there are a lot of guys making it right now. It's not hard to make the brass either if you spend the time. I've not seen 357 mag brass for sale in a long time. 38's are available.

The 300 BO Handi barrel weights 5 ounces less than a 22LR sportster barrel. It was created to be suppressed and shoot subsonic.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #6 on:** February 16, 2014, 09:16:30 AM »

i shoot 185 grain WFN in all my guns in 357 bore

they do great and not to noisy in a 22 inch barrel
very quiet in the 16 inc barrel with a can on it....my can effects accuacy and POI

i wouldn't do the 300BO....unless all i did was paperpunch
if resticted to sub-sonic ...bigger is better

i talked to red-jacket years ago about sleeving a 44 handi
wanted it integral and NOT look like a suppressed gun...just a bull barrel
his price was resonable

my handi 44 shoots 280 grain WFN just fine
in 44 russian 44 spl,,,,and 44mag........no can on my 44s

bikerbeans · « **Reply #7 on:** February 16, 2014, 09:24:20 AM »

My only thought on this project is you might want to setup a "trust" so you don't have to get local LEO signature for your "can" stamp. It was the only way my son & I could get approval because the local county sheriff is a butthead and will not sign the application. My son is an F16 pilot for the Air Nat Guard and the "badge" still wouldn't sign. We now have one stamp and I am thinking of getting a second just in honor of the sheriff doing his duty.

BB

Jeff H · « **Reply #8 on:** February 16, 2014, 10:08:53 AM »

Tony, ,357 v. 300 BLK has actually been a tough dilemma for me based on ease of loading and availability of components and many other factors. Objectively, it would be almost a dead heat with the BLK maybe nudging the .357 out by a fuzz, but it's hard to be that objective about stuff like guns sometimes and I think maybe I might prefer a .357.

A few thing I argue with myself about:

300 BLK:
First of all, the platform is the berries - the size, weight and contoured barrel - perfection of a short, light Handi and ready made.
There are no "forming dies" for this one - just a cheap set of LEE dies and yer off and runnin'. I modified a 7.62x39 LEE collet dies easily to neck size only. I've done a considerable amount of case forming and this one is cake.
Yes, chopping brass can be a pain, but if you're spending for a $1k can, what's $40 for a Harbor Freight Mni-Cutoff saw? That said, I use the table saw and dodge the offcuts.
Uses almost exactly the same amount of lead and powder as the .357.
Has the fast twist desired for the long, slow bullets but works well with short, fast bullets.
30 cal is easy to cast for and mould designs abound
Has slightly better sectional densities per same bullet weight as common .357 projectiles - should shoot flatter, should have better penetration for like weights.
Supersonic loads are useful over a wide range of bullet weights, say 110 grain to 220 grain and then those honkin' 250s.
Very common brass.
Can use the same primers if you already use small rifle in your .357.

357 Mag:
First of all, if the .357 were available in this platform, I never would have discovered the 300 BLK.
Pretty simple loading, no lube, no mess,.... no chopping.
Uses almost exactly the same amount of lead and powder as the .300 BLK.
357 cal is easy to cast for and mould designs abound
Has slightly less sectional densities per same bullet weight as common .308 projectiles - should shoot slightly less flat, should have slightly less penetration for like weights BUT makes a bigger hole with non-expanding bullets - which is not unusual for subs.
Supersonic loads are useful over a wide range of bullet weights, say 110 grain to 220 grain and then those honkin' 250s.
Very common brass.
Can use the same primers if you already use small rifle in your .300 BLK.

There are other things to consider but the 300 BLK Handi pushed me over the edge. I keep trying to think of how the .357 would trump it soundly considering my wants and needs but I'm not finding it. Oddly, I have never been a big fan of the .357 until I shot it in a carbine, but, then I have no desire to be associated with the tacti-cool mall-ninja persona either. Two cartridges I have never cared much for seem to have both fond a way into my battery and now are duking it out for "who's better."

45-70.gov · « **Reply #9 on:** February 16, 2014, 11:10:47 PM »

i have a 357 in my pocket right now and spare ammo.......and a 5 gallon bucket of brass

i have never seen a 300 bo bullet...saw the gun twice

my 357 mag will also shoot 357 MAX [without the can]

38/357 been around nearly a century....and will be around a long time to come
300 bo.........not even a decade??.........10 years from now it may not even exist
in 20 years it will be like haveing a 5mm rem mag

gcrank1 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2014, 12:07:22 AM »

As a staunch traditionalist Ive been through a bunch of calibers and working up cast bullet loads for them all.. I do like my 357M very much, and am still having fun experimenting with different bullets, weights and velo's. It is just so easy to live with, as is any straightwalled pistol caliber that you can use carbide dies for. Even that has become somewhat a moot point though, as my low pressure cast bullet loads in most everything are only sized to start use of a case. After that I am fitting as large a dia. cast bullet to the unsized case as possible and still be able to chamber up/remove cleanly.
That said, I am intrigued by the 300, and follow Jeff's posts with interest. His analytical approach and, I think, his objectives, are close to mine. I could easily find myself with one now (and the can option does not interest me) as the loading options are right up my alley. In my 'real world' it is a cartridge that can likely do the most of what I do. If I need more beans the 45-70 could come out and Id need no caliber in between.
I dont see brass as an issue, and at low pressure loads brass should last about forever, and as to the future, once you are 'in' you are not at the whims of 'whomever', like is the case with the 17RF's now. You will be able to cast, load and shoot it as long as we are still 'allowed to' in this changing culture.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2014, 03:44:26 AM »

The .357 mag is my first choice for this because, I already load for the 2 .357 mag revolvers I have and I have plenty of brass bullets and molds to get me started. Honestly I would have preferred a suppressed .44 mag because I do think bigger is better. My bad experience with the .44 mag Handi with 1 in 38 twist rifling and light loads has eliminated it from the running. I would have planned to suppress my .45-70 but I don't want to risk not being able to use the peep sight I put on it.

Another reason for the .357 is that I plan to buy a suppressor that can take the pressures of a rifle calibers and I plan to use it on one of my .30 caliber rifles too. I don't know which one yet but I want the option.

Tony

rebel0994 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2014, 04:13:39 AM »

I would recommend the .357, due to the fact that in a SHTF scenario you would only have to carry one type of ammo for it and a .357 revolver. In fact it has me thinking about doing a .357 for myself.

Roy

Jeff H · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2014, 04:23:42 AM »

Tony, what's the plan then, are you going with the current production barrel or holding out for an older slender one?

I have actually considered just having a stubbed .357 done so I can get the barrel profile I want and ensure I get the throat I want.

petemi · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2014, 04:47:51 AM »

Stupid question 101. What's the big bit with the Suppressor? Is quiet worth that much work and that many bucks? Everything I shoot goes "BANG" I don't care. My neighbors aren't close enough to hear or care. Before I spent another five or six hundred bucks to add a suppressor to something, I'd fill my four spare frames with Handi barrels I could use every day. I need a suppressor like I need Athlete's Foot. I don't know if you folks realize it or not, but when the rifle goes "bang" what you're shooting at only hears it if you miss. I try to do that not too often.

Pete

Jeff H · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2014, 07:38:34 AM »

Quote from: petemi on February 18, 2014, 04:47:51 AM

......I need a suppressor like I need Athlete's Foot......

I guess that rules out walking a mile in another man's shoes to understand "why?"

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2014, 08:42:55 AM »

One reason Pete and I know this don't matter where you are but I hunt coyotes Just outside of town and around peoples houses and barns. A can lets you do that without anyone knowing you do it and it don't upset the gun shy tree huggers so bad, I have one gent who lets me hunt his place and his wife hates it but she likes her chickens, so she don't say much. I have to leave there with the varmits in a black plastic bag so she can't see them and I try to only hunt there when I know she is out. A can would make that much easier. Heck I can see the local college campus from where I deer hunt.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2014, 11:39:36 AM »

This is going to be a long term project. I need to get the rifle then save up for the suppressor. I'm thinking I'll either buy a whole used rifle if I can find one for a good deal so I can have a SB2 frame then send it in for a new .357 barrel. I have an extra stock and I could just buy a frame but the cost of receiving one here adds too much to the price.

I'm not likely to ever bug out so that's not going to be an issue. I can't walk that far with my bum legs and getting though grocery shopping is as far as I can walk in one trip then it requires a pain pill right afterward... I'm planning to trade one of my street bikes for a quad so I don't have to give up hunting...

Like others have said this is nothing I need but rather something I want.

Tony

cudatruck · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2014, 04:45:19 PM »

Hey you might want to go all the way and get the certs for the sbr and cut that heavy 357 real short to make room for the suppressor.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2014, 09:40:09 PM »

I've got plenty of room in my safe for a rifle with a suppressor on it so that's not a concern. Since the license is for the suppressor only and I can legally put it on any gun I have, I plan to have at least one more of my rifles threaded for it. I'm thinking of also putting it on my bolt action .30-30 if it doesn't block the sights.

The guy at the local gun shop has one that he uses on both a AR10 in .308 and a AR15 in .223. I'm not into AR's but I do like the idea of passing around the suppressor to my rifles. Anyway this will won't happen soon as I have to save up for it. I hope I like it because it's going to cost me the price of at least 3 more guns I could have gotten...

Tony