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Offline ironglows

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Re: Jesus was a Jew...
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2021, 02:02:15 AM »
  As Christians we are justified by faith in Jesus ..  We do know however that at least some of the OT figures were also justified by faith.  Surely we have all read Hebrews 11!

 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2011&version=NKJV

 
New King James Version

By Faith We Understand

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Faith at the Dawn of History
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.

5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

Faithful Abraham
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she[d] bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.

The Heavenly Hope
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

The Faith of the Patriarchs
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” 19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.

20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.

22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.

The Faith of Moses
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s command.

24 By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the [g]passing pleasures of sin, 26 esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt; for he looked to the reward.

27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned.

By Faith They Overcame
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.

32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again.

Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline Dee

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Re: Jesus was a Jew...
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2021, 02:58:53 AM »
LOL
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Offline powderman

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Re: Jesus was a Jew...
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2021, 08:29:16 PM »
PETE, not sure what you were trying to say with that long post, I never read long posts anyway.
I have enjoyed this discussion I especially liked it when LLOYD joined in. This proves that we can all behave like gentlemen. If more people would read the Bible, instead of mans opinions about it we would all be better off. I'm reading some pamphlets about Revelations that agree with my thoughts for many year now. YEAH, I know it's late, can't sleep hurting again. CHARLIE.  ::) ::)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Jesus was a Jew...
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2021, 09:43:45 PM »
i do hope God gives you some relief from your pain.
PETE, not sure what you were trying to say with that long post, I never read long posts anyway.
I have enjoyed this discussion I especially liked it when LLOYD joined in. This proves that we can all behave like gentlemen. If more people would read the Bible, instead of mans opinions about it we would all be better off. I'm reading some pamphlets about Revelations that agree with my thoughts for many year now. YEAH, I know it's late, can't sleep hurting again. CHARLIE.  ::) ::)
blue lives matter

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Jesus was a Jew...
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2021, 09:48:05 PM »
faith and belief in God is what he will judge you on on judgement day. Not what church you go to. In all actuality christians tend to take more liberties and are less devote followers of God then most other faiths. To many religion is a way of life. Not something thats practiced and preached when convenient. Heck some here dont even inconvenience themselves to go to church on sunday anymore. Im even guilt of that with this covid thing going on. 
  As Christians we are justified by faith in Jesus ..  We do know however that at least some of the OT figures were also justified by faith.  Surely we have all read Hebrews 11!

 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2011&version=NKJV

 
New King James Version

By Faith We Understand

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Faith at the Dawn of History
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.

5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

Faithful Abraham
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she[d] bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.

The Heavenly Hope
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

The Faith of the Patriarchs
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” 19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.

20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.

22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.

The Faith of Moses
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s command.

24 By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the [g]passing pleasures of sin, 26 esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt; for he looked to the reward.

27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned.

By Faith They Overcame
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.

32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again.

Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
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Offline ironglows

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Re: Jesus was a Jew...
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2021, 01:28:49 AM »
  Without launching into a long dissertation, here is the scenario;

  6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.  (2 Cor 5:6-8)
   When a Christian dies today, say from Covid.. his/her soul goes directly to be with the Lord.  However, his/her body awaits the resurrection to come at the return of the Lord, at which point it will be a "glorified body".
    The scenario is well described in (1 Corinthians 15:42-57)

    42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”;[a] the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

Mystery and Victory
50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O death, where is your victory?
    O death, where is your sting?”

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 
   Vs. 42-51 describes the earthly body, which does not fit in heaven..
   Vs. 52-57 describes the glorified body, which is fir for heaven..so when does it change?
  In vs. 51-53, ...when Jesus returns for the rapture, the change takes place.

 

 
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline ironglows

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Re: Jesus was a Jew...
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2021, 01:58:08 AM »
 Personally, I see salvation as being outlined concisely in (John 3:3).  However, I won't take the liberty to judge the state of another's salvation.

  "12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another?"  (James 4:12)
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Jesus was a Jew...
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2021, 05:01:50 AM »
boy those words should be a sticky on this forum
Personally, I see salvation as being outlined concisely in (John 3:3).  However, I won't take the liberty to judge the state of another's salvation.

  "12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another?"  (James 4:12)
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Jesus was a Jew...
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2021, 07:25:41 AM »
boy those words should be a sticky on this forum
Personally, I see salvation as being outlined concisely in (John 3:3).  However, I won't take the liberty to judge the state of another's salvation.

  "12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another?"  (James 4:12)
Suggest it to Matt or Bill.
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Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline ironglows

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Re: Jesus was a Jew...
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2021, 12:36:10 PM »
PETE, not sure what you were trying to say with that long post, I never read long posts anyway.
I have enjoyed this discussion I especially liked it when LLOYD joined in. This proves that we can all behave like gentlemen. If more people would read the Bible, instead of mans opinions about it we would all be better off. I'm reading some pamphlets about Revelations that agree with my thoughts for many year now. YEAH, I know it's late, can't sleep hurting again. CHARLIE.  ::) ::)
   You suggested that some OT figures were saved.  It seems your observation was disputed so I simply posted Hebrews 11, which speaks of numerous ones who were recorded in the Bible as being saved..
  https://answersingenesis.org/gospel/salvation/how-were-people-saved-before-jesus-came-in-the-flesh/

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_DxxetguBE

  ...And yes, I am pleased to see the participation, without anger..
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..