Author Topic: Contender pressure signs  (Read 1090 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline z1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Contender pressure signs
« on: February 25, 2004, 11:02:43 AM »
Once again I have gone brain dead.  

Somewhere around here I have something that tells me what to look for when a Contender load is approaching max.  I have no idea where that document is.

Help!  Please!
Warriors must succeed when politicians fail.

Offline Lone Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
If it looks like this
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2004, 03:02:49 PM »


If it looks like this you went to far.

Jeff

Offline djp

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Posts: 2
Contender pressure signs
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2004, 02:26:26 AM »
Looks like that was overloaded by a few tenths of a grain.

Offline skb2706

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1428
Contender pressure signs
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2004, 03:28:51 AM »
where have I seen that infamous picture before..............

Offline jschance

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 132
Contender pressure signs
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2004, 04:01:48 AM »
OK,  

I've never seen that picture before, but I'd like to hear more about it.  What caliber was it before the chamber was expanded?  It looks like it was a fairly long, straight walled case, maybe a .444 or a .45-70?  Any other details to be offered?

Offline z1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Contender pressure signs
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2004, 05:09:37 AM »
Do you think it could be a 45-70 that had a scope mounted?  I see a scope in the photo and the mounting holes in the barrel appear to leave little meat in the chamber.

What happened to the shooter?
Warriors must succeed when politicians fail.

Offline Lone Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
Contender pressure signs
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2004, 05:21:45 AM »
I believe it was 44 Mag rechambered  to 444Marlin.  Reportedly the guy bought it at a gunshow.  38 rounds of factory ammo latter it came apart.

My belief is the scope base holes were drilled to deep.

No matter what the cause was,  I like to look at it every once in a while.

 
Reminds me not to push the limits.

Here is a link to more pics.

http://www.ourpeak.com/ralphw/tc/

Jeff

Offline Redhawk1

  • Life time NRA Supporter.
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (78)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Gender: Male
Contender pressure signs
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2004, 06:04:38 AM »
I have a Contender in 444 Marlin. It was rechambered by SSK from 44MAG. I got it from a guy the shot it several hundred time and it was shot before he got it. I have put 70 of my reloads in the 444 Marlin myself. I am guessing it will hold up as long as I don't try to hot rod the 444. I load in the middle ranger from my load data. I do not see any reason to try to push it to the Max limits. My thought is if you buy a gun and want to push it to the Max, you should have bought the next round up you are trying to reach. JMHO  :grin:
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Endowment Life Member of the NRA
Life Member NA

Offline T/C nimrod

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 213
Contender pressure signs
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2004, 06:59:01 AM »
z1 - I can't help with the documentation you're looking for, only what I use to stay within the realms of safety. First off, stay reasonably close to current published data and you'll probably be alright. I say "reasonably close" because all you have to do is compare load data from 5 years ago and you will notice some slight changes.

I use a combination of primer appearance, felt recoil, heard report, bullet velocity, case extraction, and CHE measurements. Take note I said "a combination of". Each of these things don't tell you a whole lot about pressure by themselves, but together they willl lay out a pretty clear picture. Keep in mind, these things will not tell you how much pressure you have - you'll need to invest in a strain gauge for that purpose.

I tend to base what I am looking for off results of factory loaded rounds as well. Factory rounds will be somewhere close to max loading for a specific caliber, giving you a pretty good idea as to where your handloads are at.
Say you have a 35 Remington on a Contender frame that pushes 200 grain bullets at 1777 fps, a moderate recoil (for you), cases come out of the chamber easily, and CHE measures at .0003" above the measurement you took on an unfired round. You shoot a few handloads, and with a 41 grain charge of W748 have a velocity reading of 1820 fps, a heavy recoil, cases that have to be pushed out with a cleaning rod, and .0005" CHE you can pretty much guarrantee you're over max pressure.
If you look at those specs hard enough, you'll see that you probably hit max at 39.3 grains with a Hornady roundnose. wait........I didn't mention what bullet we were shooting...........exactly, ;change components you have to go back to the beginning and start all over.

Pressure signs can be a big discussion in a group of handloaders, as can velocity to determine pressure and CHE to determine pressure. My take on it - watch for as many things as you can and you'll enjoy many more days at the range.

PS - If the above photo was of the 444 rechamber, I don't think the true story ever came out, or if anything was truly resolved in the incident.

Offline Jim Stacy

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
pressure signs
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2004, 01:50:17 PM »
I addition the case extraction and case head expansion I look for vertical stringing . You will get vertical stringing any time you push a contender frame too far. If you see it in your first group stop and pull the bullets on your loads there too hot.  My opinion from personal experience.

Offline T/C nimrod

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 213
Contender pressure signs
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2004, 02:59:50 PM »
That's interesting - I usually look at vertical or horizontal stringing as a bullet seating issue. Do you use this along with case extraction? Do you see this stringing begin as you reach max loads?

You have the brain fluids working on this - Wonder if you take your vertical stringing load (accepting that point is max)and adjust your seating depth out if, 1) chamber pressures drop and/or 2) if the vertical stringing goes away?

Offline kirkwhitaker

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 76
    • http://www.kirkwhitaker.com
pressure signs...
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2004, 08:03:43 AM »
but, don't get fooled by headspace....if you are using a normal load and get flat primers...what you may have is a shoulder too far back. my 6.5 tcu ALWAYS flattens primers when fireforming...and if i move the shoulder it will do the same... but this round headspaces on the shoulder only..since it has no rim...i size to within 1/8 inch or so of the base of the neck for this round...same thing for my 219 zipper...since it has a very sloping shoulder. i full lenght resize about every 4 loadings of the case...which is when it usually needs trimming.
kirk
www.kirkwhitaker.com is up and running
drop on by!

Offline z1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Contender pressure signs
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2004, 02:01:43 PM »
Good info folks.  Thanks for the help.

z1
Warriors must succeed when politicians fail.

Offline z1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Contender pressure signs
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2004, 02:05:58 PM »
Good info folks.  Thanks for the help.

z1
Warriors must succeed when politicians fail.

Offline Jim Stacy

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Recent problem with pressure in a 30/221
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2004, 05:04:38 PM »
I got case head expansion and vertical stringing with too hot loads. The TC felt pretty normal when opened but the vertical stringing was definitely there . When I got the cases home and measured the heads of the cases those that ran .376 or larger were ruined , could seat a primer with my thumb. The first sign was vertical stringing on some "fire form loads". I used some aa#7 and 100 Gr hdy sj's to form the 30/221 cases. The load , according to the sierra manual was middle of the road for a 110 gr bullet so no problem with a 100 gr , wrong. I have seen vertical stinging with my 221 fb barrel and factory loads , factory load for the 221 ran 52K . The think would string them until you loaded the 221 a little more sedate. Then it shot great. I have always found vertical stringing in way too hot loads. Been there a couple of times . I have also found the AA# powbers to be a bit variable in their burn rate , some run a little hot like the 30/221 loads I cooked up . just another indicator I watch for.

Offline 444encore

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 184
Contender pressure signs
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2004, 09:54:24 PM »
Make no mistake,
  Decent load,

Hot load,
[/img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/113357.JPG
More one shot kills

Offline 444encore

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 184
Contender pressure signs
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2004, 10:00:09 PM »
OK, I'll try thjis again
Hot Load
More one shot kills