Pan lubing question

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I am playing around with loading my .357 with black powder.  Normally I lube my cast bullets with Lee Liquid Alox.  However, I don't trust that with BP so I want to pan lube bullets with beeswax and deer tallow.

What a mess!

What do you guys use to cut the bullets out of the hardened lube?

I cut a section out of a .30-30 case which fits around a .357 bullet OK.  But the lube got all over the bullets.  

How do you get those nice picture perfect bullets with the lube only in the groove and not all over the ogive and base?

I have Lee sizing dies so I don't have access to a Lyman lubrisizer.

[Kragman71]

BJJ,
I have'nt pan lubed for many years,but it is easy to remember.
Cut the lube with a case that closlely matches the bullet. I would use a 35 Rem or 35 Whelen artridge for the 357. A pistol cartridge is tough to control,for me.
Frank

[John Traveler]

Kragman has the right idea.

A FIRED .35 caliber rifle case with a foot-long legth of copper tubing soldered over it works for me.

The long copper tube makes a good handle, and you can stack up over a dozen bullets before pushing the contents out with a piece of dowel rod.

Have you found the Lee pan lube kits?  They contain a correct caliber cake cutter and bullet-sizing chamber.

John

[50-110]

I've been panlubing for about 30yrs and used the cake cutter untill a new friend showed me a better way.
I use disposable aluminum piepans they hold 50 458/510 size, fill to just below the crimp groove, let it fully harden,seperate the pie tin from the lube, the bullets require very little thumb pressure to fall out onto a towell. a hole lot less messy than the cakecutter and the pie tins last through several thousand bullets.
I use a beeswax, crisco and olive oil (controls the stiffness for use with BP or smokeless) mix I've used it with my 444 Marlin to 2550fps with very little leading.

[ButlerFord45]

Refrigarate the pan, when the lube is firm, remove a chunk of lube and bullets and thrmb them out.

[Sky C.]

Howdy All-

Question about the trick with the lube in the freezer.

I gave this a try recently but in pushing the bullets out of the lube cake - the lube pulled out of the lube grooves.  Lube was regular 50/50 Alox & Beeswax.  What didI do wrong?

The cookie cutter method is a mess.  Lube all over the nose & up into the crimp groove - even though the lube only reached to the top lube groove.  i sure like the sound of a cleaner method but need to overcome the problem.


Thanks-

Sky C.

[ButlerFord45]

Sky C

I have no idea, I've never encountered that problem??

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I'm with Sky C, I tried just breaking them out of the lube but the lube came out of the groove instead.

[ButlerFord45]

Black Jack, don't break them out, push them out so that there is a hole in the lube where the bullet was.  I'm mentally seeing this as I'm explaining it, but that doesen't help you.  If my descriptions aren't addequate, I'll take pictures of what I'm trying to describe and post'em

[Sky C.]

Howdy Butler-

As for me - I was attempting to push the bullets thru the cake keeping them end-on.  Tried pushing from base thru the cake & when that gave trouble - also tried pushing from nose back the other way.  Same problem.

Somewhere on another forum I read that there is a narrow temp range where the bullets had to be pushed thru in this method or else - lube would pull out of the grooves (sounds familiar...).  Also read that larger caliber bullets were more problematic and needed to be set further apart in the pan.  I was trying to do this with .38-55 bullets and they were space only slightly farther apart than necessary to slip a cookie cutter over the bullet.  I'll have to experiment some more.  So far - lube on the "cool' side with the current spacing in the pan isn't working too well.  Will try letting the cake warm-up bit by bit and then if that doesn't work - try spacing them further apart to see if this will solve the problem.

Best regards-

Sky

[ButlerFord45]

Sky C, I know what alox is, but I've never knowingly seen the stuff, what's the consistancy of your lube?  I shouldn't think it would be much different than other homemade BP lubes.  I'd be intrested in your temperature experiment.  Extra space between bullets may help, your's sound pretty close,  I put about 250 45s in a 10 x 13 inch cookie pan and that puts a bit of space between bullets and with 458's I use a much smaller, deeper pan and only lube 20-30 at a time.  As to size making a difference, it may, but I've not noticed any between 357's and 458's.

[The Shrink]

Black Jack, others,

The Alox I've used is sticky, and makes your lube sticky.  It wants to stick to itself more than to the bullet.

A BP lube with beeswax and an fat or lanolin will be less sticky.  When frozen it breaks, and doesn't stay in the grooves, when fully hard at room temp it will push out, but is still somewhat messy.  I line my pan with plastic wrap, hold onto the block through the wrap, and push down on the bullet enough to pop the wrap off the bottom of the lube block.  I then push/pull the bullet out, and it comes our relatively clean.  If the bullets are too close together releasing one will break the lube out of the next.  

If you then size with the Lee system you will have one of those picture perfect bullets.

Wayne

[jgalar]

How about just melting the lube, dip the bullet into the lube and place on waxpaper to dry. It dries almost immediately.  Then run it through a sizer.

[Trapper-Jack]

I just read you guy's posts about pan lubing bullets.  I pan lube for my 45/70 with the beeswax/Crisco/Olive oil lube all the time.  I too had the same problems with the grease pulling out of the grooves if the grease cake was too cold.  I have the best results by setting the bullets in a pie pan on their bases and pouring the melted lube into the pan up to the crimp band of the bullet.  I then push the bullets out of the grease cake by applying thumb pressure to the nose of the bullet after the melted lube has set up at room temprature but while it is still warm.  They don't take too much pressure to remove and the grease stays in the grooves.  It what works for me.
Trapper Jack

[dangerranger]

I had that problem too till I started heating the bullets.I put the bullets on the pan,pour in the lube, and put them in the oven at 250 for about 10 min. when cool the lube sticks just fine. in the summer you can put them out in the sun.

[ButlerFord45]

Danger, ya may have a point there I have never considered. I've always heated the lube and bullets in the oven to melt the lube.  Further, I don't freeze the lube just chill it till it's easy to handle.  I have never had the problems these folks are having so I''ve been baffeled.  Thanks

[Goatlips]

Hay Black Jacques,

A similar question appeared elsewhere and this was my reply, hope nobody minds if I repeat meself here:

"Part of the fun of pan lubing is learning how to do it. Everyone seems to do it a little different. Keepin' it short, best for me is to use teflon pie pans, stand yer boolits upright (forty works for me), and the first time pour yer lube in just past the lube groove. Let cool 'til just kinda warm and the cake looks hard clear through. Too hot they're messy and the cake breaks up, too cold and things get brittle. I turn my pan upside down on a towel; when the cake is ready - ten minutes isn't too long - it just falls out without help and the pan goes "poink" to call you back into the kitchen (took me a LONG time to learn this).

Some people cut 'em out with a tube of some sort. Some push them from the nose or the base. I lay the cake right side up on a double towel that has a little give to it, then tap each boolit nose once with somethin' - I use a wooden knife handle - to bust it LOOSE, not OUT. Goes fast with practice if ya got rhythm. Gently pick up the cake and push the ones that need it the rest of the way out with yer thumbs. Put the cake back in the pan, fill the holes with fresh lead and put pan in oven (pizza warmin' temp), for +- ten mins until lube is melted again, place on level surface to cool, repeat; I get six pans in rotation at a time.

The refrigerator speeds cooling but is a little tricky fer me to get the timing right. Had to train m'self to be patient. I then use my Lee sizer to clean 'em up. Retired my 450 and spg.
Hope this helps pard, keep tryin' 'til you find what works for you! You'll hear from other folks and we're ALL right. "

Goatlips

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Goatlips,

Thanks.  Theres some things that I'm gathering that are actually most critical, but no one really realizes it.

One - learn the proper spacing between bullets.  Too dense and popping out one bullet ruins the neighboring bullet.

Two - learn the proper temp of lube which works best for removal.  Too cold and lube is brittle, too hot and it's a sticky mess.  

I tried individually dipping them.  This works pretty good except that it leaves a lube "cookie" on the base of the bullet - which may actually be desireable for BP shooters and Cowboy action guys.  But you can expect it will have an affect on case capacity/pressures when dealing with 9mm and other autos.

I will say, after pan lubing - paper patching doesn't seem like all that much hassle.