Recovered Bullets

[Graybeard]

Jim they all sorta look like text book examples of how a bullet is supposed to look after recovery. Those Swift A-Frames sure do a fine job but boy are they expensive.

GB

[JJHACK]

As a professional hunter I see plenty of game killed. In most single seasons I will see more big game killed then a regular sport hunter see's in his entire life!  Just this past May and June I had 19 hunters shoot 117 big game animals and that was only one season. I have found since keeping pretty good records that we recover about 25% of the Swifts we shoot. Only about  10% of the Barnes X and failsafe bullets.  Noslers are a less frequent bullet in Africa so we don't have the resolution we do with the others but they are someplace in between.

The Swift Aframes don't exit as often as the Partition in my experience. However  they create a much bigger wound channel for a much greater distance. They are simply to big and round to cut thhrough the hide as often. They usually push the skin out so there is a huge bullet sized lump on the off side of the body.  There are other benifits and some advantages to the Aframes such as weight retention which adds to depth of penetration. Noslers tend to blow off the front half of the bullet leaving the cutting shap edges of the jacket at a much reduced diameter to continue cutting through the body and the exit side hide.  The loss of the front half does effect the abiltiy to penetrate perfectly straight much of the time. When big bones are struck at close range or High velocity the  Partiton will survive better then a standard bullet but "peter out" quickly after the inertia is wasted on the bone. The A frame will reamain with 90% of it's weight and continue to plow forward, but may not exit when it gets to the skin.

One other thing to remember is that the hide thickness of African game is much heavier then the hide thickness of deer. Zebra, wildebbest, gemsbok, waterbuck etc are extremely heavily constructed big animals. Their hide thickness and strength is heavier then an elk in most cases.  Just as the African Lion's skin is by a margin heavier then the Bears skin.

I think evolution has improved the skin quality where so many dangerous and posionous insects and spiders live, not to mention that every bush and tree in Southern Africa is filled with thorns.

Partitions are the "premium" bullet by which all others are judged.  I used them exclusive for many years.

[markc]

:-) JJ,  how often do you see the 30-06 used in Africa?   What  %  out of the multitude of species in Africa can be harvested with the 30-06?  Any dangerous game taken with the 30-06?
Thanks  markc

[JJHACK]

This past year about half of my hunters used the plain old and boring 30/06 Two animals were lost. A warthog which was het to far back and ran off right at dark.  We came back to find it the next morning but it rained that night ruining our tracking effort. We did find where we think he ran into a ground burrow. The other was a Zebra which was likely also hit to far back. All the other animals were killed and located without any problems. The 30/06 is one of the top most popular cartridges in all of South Africa with local hunters. They tend to load with heavy bullets rather then light bullets.

As far as dangerous game goes. I have never had a single hunter deliberately choose a 30/06 for any of them except leopard which is a small animal of only 90-150 pounds most of the time.  It's not that it would not kill them but who would spend 17,000 minimum to hunt a male  African  lion or an elephant and then deliberately bring a 30/06 to hunt with?

In many countries it's illegal to use anything less then a .375 diameter bullets for the dangerous game species which also include Hippo.  For 4500.00 bucks you can come hunt with me this spring and shoot 5 animals with your 30/06!

[markc]

If I had an extra $4500.00 I would use it right here in good ole USA.  Africa someday,  but not yet.  Good to know the old boring 30-06 still works.  markc :grin:

[Zachary]

JJHACK,

What is your experience with the Barnes X bullets?  I have used them on deer and hogs and have found both the penetration and expansion to be perfect.

I recently used a 180 grain Barnes X in .300 Win Mag on a 250 lb. wild hog.  Believe it or not, the bullet did not fully penetrate, but it expanded perfectly.

I recently purchased a Winchester M70 Classic Stainless in .375 H&H with PMC 300 grain Barnes X ammo for a hopefull trip to Africa next year.  
Any throughts would be appreciated.

Zachary

[JJHACK]

Barnes X bullets are a strange paradox for many of us. Some guns shoot them great and some don't. Some barrels foul horribly and cannot  shoot more then a few without a massive barrel cleaning.

I have never had a hunting rifle that would shoot these bullets consistantly. My Back-up rifle the 458 Lott shoots them really well and I use them all the time.  I have seen some really weird things with the X bullets which have shaken my confidence in them when driven at high velocity. I don't like the way they curve on occasion and end up in odd unintended locations.

I have seen plenty of them recovered unopened and bent into the shape of a bannana.  They just spook me with their inconsistant performance. I Know when they work properly the great majority of the time they are magnificent.  They just require too much effort for me in my own hunting rifles.

The biggest problem I have seen with them is very the frequent exits. When I have a hunter using X bullets I have to limit the shots they take at herd animals. I don't want him shooting through one and hitting another. Speaking from  experience I will only allow guys with X bullets to shoot game standing completley seperate from other game. That is not always easy when the biggest bull is among the cows broadside and the hunter cannot shoot without agreeing to pay for any aditional game hit whether it's killed or not.

The bonded core bullets exit about 60-70 percent of the time, compared to the X bullets which exit almost every time on broadside shots and even on many end to end shots.

I have never had one of my 450 grain X bullets stopped by any animal yet broadside. I have never been able to recover a single X bullet from this rifle.  If your rifle shoots the X well and your willing to limit your shots on herd animals then the X will be a good choice for you.  I personally prefer a bullet that is more consistant in straight penetration and will not exit 100% of the time for herd shooting.

Some of this Exit and not exit talk may sound contridictive. So to clarify my point When you shoot something in a herd and you know the bullet will shoot clean through strait as an arrow with nothing behind the animal even with another animal slightly behind him a couple feet away the Bonded core bullets can be trusted.

With the X bullets nearly always exiting and with their tendency to curve inside the body, you never know for 100% certain where the exit will be. Because of the near 100% exits and the uncertain direction of the exit you must have all other game standing well clear of the the intended target.

The Barnes X bullet in my opinion is best described as a slightly expanding solid bullet, not a soft point. It fills in a place somewhere between softs and solids. That may be an ingenious design or it may be filling a need nobody has? You have to make that choice.

[Zachary]

JJHACK,

You mentioned that a certain Hornady bullet has the same POI as the Swift, yet is much less expensive than the Swift and thus you use the Hornady for practice and the Swift for hunting.  To which Hornady bullet are you refering, and is this Hornady bullet loaded to Hornady factory ammo?

On a related matter, how would you compare the Trophy Bonded Bullet to the Swift?  It appears to me that the performance of the TB should be almost identical to the Swfit.  Is the POI of the TB also the same as the Hornady bullet you mentioned earlier?

Sorry for all of these questions, but I am trying to learn as much as possible, and thus prepare far in advance, before I finally take a hunting trip in Africa.

Thanks,

Zachary

[JJHACK]

I think the Trophy bonded and the Swift should have the same performance but I don't know about point of impact.

The standard Hornady spire points when shot out of my rifle hit to the same POI as the Swifts. This also seems to work well in many other rifles of friends and clients.  I mention it because it's a great way practice cheap and use an outstanding bullet for hunting.

I can't imagine being stuck with only factory ammo, so I'm not certain with the performance comparison of the Bonded bullets to the Hornady bullets. Because I only hand load I can more likely make ammo that will be identical.

[Zachary]

Thanks.

Zachary