60% of adults do NOT believe that JESUS is the only way to Heaven, believe in bu

[locust]

if they dont sin there is no reason for judgement , they live on and on

LOL, I think you've got you, or someone else, has you pretty mixed up.

no sin ,no judgement . its just that simple

LOL, I've spent a lot of time over the years studying, and listening to the right folks, and some real squirrels, and I'll say I've heard similar arguments as yours from individuals.
What I've learned is, I don't argue, and I don't debate the Bible.
I've given you enough information in just those scriptures I quoted to keep you busy for weeks looking up supporting scriptures. There are no opposing ones.

I know what I believe, why I believe it, and where to find it.
You haven't got anything in your war chest that'll change my mind.
I won't label you anything, I'll just say you're confused, and don't know it.
Later dude.

its been said you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink . please come drink life's water free

[ironglow]

.  From locust;
  "dyeing that first death with out christ leaves out a great deal of people . so many never had the opportunity to know of him . it was not there fault. resurrect those people ,give them the opportunity to learn and then except or deny him will then get them a judgement .that would be the 2nd death . many now have been told .should they be given a 2nd chance ?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

  This has been discussed so many times here previously, that there is no reason to take it up here and now.

      TN has of course given us some sage advice, but just one more question, please...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The Bible has a number of verses, which make it clear that "I and my Father are one".  Orthodox Christianity proclaims that Jesus is not only "the Son of God",,,but also "God the Son" !

   As Jesus once asked Peter.."who do you say I am?" 

     So I ask you..no evasive, "double speak" now, just straight out tell us....

     Who do YOU say Jesus is?

 

which version of the bible ever said God the son?

  The words Theocracy and Christendom are not in the Bible either, but the JWs still use the terms..

  The verses made it quite clear that Jesus is the Son, in the trifold God..Father, Son, Holy Spirit..the triune Godhead.

  " For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" (Col 2:9)

[ironglow]

.
  From Dee;
 
  " LOL, I think you already know, "God the Son" is NOT in any Christian version of the Bible."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ...Look back, when I said God the Son..I gave no cited verse, but simple logic and following what IS written in the Bible, makes it a fact !  To say any other would be a denial of the trinity !

 
  " For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" (Col 2:9)


   For goodness sake, don't take any cues from Locust !  ..Or should I say "for Heaven's sake"?   

[Dee]

.
  From Dee;
 
  " LOL, I think you already know, "God the Son" is NOT in any Christian version of the Bible."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ...Look back, when I said God the Son..I gave no cited verse, but simple logic and following what IS written in the Bible, makes it a fact !  To say any other would be a denial of the trinity !

 
  " For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" (Col 2:9)


   For goodness sake, don't take any cues from Locust !  ..Or should I say "for Heaven's sake"?   

Pathetic. He was nitpicking you, just like your trying to nitpick me.   

[locust]

.
  From Dee;
 
  " LOL, I think you already know, "God the Son" is NOT in any Christian version of the Bible."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ...Look back, when I said God the Son..I gave no cited verse, but simple logic and following what IS written in the Bible, makes it a fact !  To say any other would be a denial of the trinity !

 
  " For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" (Col 2:9)


   For goodness sake, don't take any cues from Locust !  ..Or should I say "for Heaven's sake"?   

what you did was to invent what you WANT to believe BTW there is no logic in making things up

[ironglow]

.
  From Dee;
 
  " LOL, I think you already know, "God the Son" is NOT in any Christian version of the Bible."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ...Look back, when I said God the Son..I gave no cited verse, but simple logic and following what IS written in the Bible, makes it a fact !  To say any other would be a denial of the trinity !

 
  " For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" (Col 2:9)


   For goodness sake, don't take any cues from Locust !  ..Or should I say "for Heaven's sake"?   

what you did was to invent what you WANT to believe BTW there is no logic in making things up

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

   I didn't have to make that up Locust.. 
  " For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" (Col 2:9)
  It's in the Bible, ...maybe not in the NWT, but it is in the REAL Bible.

   And in case you were wondering, that verse is completely in context!  Here's vs 8-10 ;

      "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power."

  Notice how the Bible tells us that some (false teachers?) will try to cheat by other means, by not allowing full recognition of Christ (vs    but we are complete in Him, and He is the "head of all principality and power" (vs 10)!
   
  Now, vs 10, sure sounds like God, even though it is speaking of Jesus....who is the 2nd part of the trinity..

   

[locust]

.
  From Dee;
 
  " LOL, I think you already know, "God the Son" is NOT in any Christian version of the Bible."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ...Look back, when I said God the Son..I gave no cited verse, but simple logic and following what IS written in the Bible, makes it a fact !  To say any other would be a denial of the trinity !

 
  " For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" (Col 2:9)


   For goodness sake, don't take any cues from Locust !  ..Or should I say "for Heaven's sake"?   

what you did was to invent what you WANT to believe BTW there is no logic in making things up

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

   I didn't have to make that up Locust.. 
  " For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" (Col 2:9)
  It's in the Bible, ...maybe not in the NWT, but it is in the REAL Bible.

   And in case you were wondering, that verse is completely in context!  Here's vs 8-10 ;

      "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power."

  Notice how the Bible tells us that some (false teachers?) will try to cheat by other means, by not allowing full recognition of Christ (vs    but we are complete in Him, and He is the "head of all principality and power" (vs 10)!
   
  Now, vs 10, sure sounds like God, even though it is speaking of Jesus....who is the 2nd part of the trinity..

   

GENESIS 1 :26
are you a trinity ?? i am not

[ironglow]

.
  From Dee;
 
  " LOL, I think you already know, "God the Son" is NOT in any Christian version of the Bible."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ...Look back, when I said God the Son..I gave no cited verse, but simple logic and following what IS written in the Bible, makes it a fact !  To say any other would be a denial of the trinity !

 
  " For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" (Col 2:9)


   For goodness sake, don't take any cues from Locust !  ..Or should I say "for Heaven's sake"?   

what you did was to invent what you WANT to believe BTW there is no logic in making things up

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

   I didn't have to make that up Locust.. 
  " For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" (Col 2:9)
  It's in the Bible, ...maybe not in the NWT, but it is in the REAL Bible.

   And in case you were wondering, that verse is completely in context!  Here's vs 8-10 ;

      "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power."

  Notice how the Bible tells us that some (false teachers?) will try to cheat by other means, by not allowing full recognition of Christ (vs    but we are complete in Him, and He is the "head of all principality and power" (vs 10)!
   
  Now, vs 10, sure sounds like God, even though it is speaking of Jesus....who is the 2nd part of the trinity..

   

GENESIS 1 :26
are you a trinity ?? i am not

   Well, thank you Locust..you have proven my point!  Genesis (the beginning)  ..From Genesis 1:1 through Genesis 1:26 there are no human beings..  Here's the text of 1:26;

       26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.

  So, there are as yet, not one human in existence..yet God says, "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness..."

  OK..so who is God talking to?  Obviously, there are others near Him,  with whom He is having a conversation!   
     
    They couldn't be the Son and the Holy spirit, could they?

 

[ironglow]

.
  In (John 1:1)  Gop says...   " 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and  the Word was God."

     Then in (John 1:14) He says.. " 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

  Now, That covers the Son, do you need scriptural evidence of the Holy Spirit?

[Dee]

.
  From Dee;
 
  " LOL, I think you already know, "God the Son" is NOT in any Christian version of the Bible."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ...Look back, when I said God the Son..I gave no cited verse, but simple logic and following what IS written in the Bible, makes it a fact !  To say any other would be a denial of the trinity !

 
  " For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" (Col 2:9)


   For goodness sake, don't take any cues from Locust !  ..Or should I say "for Heaven's sake"?   

what you did was to invent what you WANT to believe BTW there is no logic in making things up

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

   I didn't have to make that up Locust.. 
  " For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" (Col 2:9)
  It's in the Bible, ...maybe not in the NWT, but it is in the REAL Bible.

   And in case you were wondering, that verse is completely in context!  Here's vs 8-10 ;

      "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power."

  Notice how the Bible tells us that some (false teachers?) will try to cheat by other means, by not allowing full recognition of Christ (vs    but we are complete in Him, and He is the "head of all principality and power" (vs 10)!
   
  Now, vs 10, sure sounds like God, even though it is speaking of Jesus....who is the 2nd part of the trinity..

   

GENESIS 1 :26
are you a trinity ?? i am not

   Well, thank you Locust..you have proven my point!  Genesis (the beginning)  ..From Genesis 1:1 through Genesis 1:26 there are no human beings..  Here's the text of 1:26;

       26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.

  So, there are as yet, not one human in existence..yet God says, "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness..."

  OK..so who is God talking to?  Obviously, there are others near Him,  with whom He is having a conversation!   
     
    They couldn't be the Son and the Holy spirit, could they?

 

If your saying you can explain, and understand the Holy Triune, you're more full of BS than he is.

[locust]

.
  In (John 1:1)  Gop says...   " 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and  the Word was God."

     Then in (John 1:14) He says.. " 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

  Now, That covers the Son, do you need scriptural evidence of the Holy Spirit?

if a man is a trinity why does he not have 3 faces

[ironglow]

.
  In (John 1:1)  Gop says...   " 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and  the Word was God."

     Then in (John 1:14) He says.. " 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

  Now, That covers the Son, do you need scriptural evidence of the Holy Spirit?

if a man is a trinity why does he not have 3 faces

  Locust..your answers are becoming far too asinine to justify an answer. 

  There are two major cults that deny the trinity, so why don't you just "fess up", and get it over with ? 
.

[locust]

.
  In (John 1:1)  Gop says...   " 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and  the Word was God."

     Then in (John 1:14) He says.. " 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

  Now, That covers the Son, do you need scriptural evidence of the Holy Spirit?

if a man is a trinity why does he not have 3 faces

  Locust..your answers are becoming far too asinine to justify an answer. 

  There are two major cults that deny the trinity, so why don't you just "fess up", and get it over with ? 
.likely because you dont have an answer. you cant or you don't want to believe God is as he is .but you want to believe what makes you feel good. the bible does not support your beliefs so you ignore what you don't like.  Jesus answers to his God ,he does what  his God wants him to do .
you have a faith ,but its a blind faith with dead ends.

[ironglow]

.
  Locust;
  I ask you a simple question..Are you a JW ?  Your forthrightness is umderwhelming !   

[teamnelson]

I've been trying to remember a name ... Fly something ... was it fly-paper? Something like that. Anybody else remember that? Seems like we got an insect theme going on.

Denying the deity of Christ is usually a good sign that there is not a shared Spirit of God in the conversation, which makes all further conversation moot. You cannot reason someone into a regenerate heart. And their goal is usually to attempt to convince one of the 60% from the OP to join their cult. Trouble is, salvation is not by rational assent; its by a changed heart, which precedes hearing and believing the gospel. Discernment is a spiritual gift, and discerning spirits ... or the lack of one, is part of that gift. May we all increase in the gifts!

[Dee]

I've been trying to remember a name ... Fly something ... was it fly-paper? Something like that. Anybody else remember that? Seems like we got an insect theme going on.

Denying the deity of Christ is usually a good sign that there is not a shared Spirit of God in the conversation, which makes all further conversation moot. You cannot reason someone into a regenerate heart. And their goal is usually to attempt to convince one of the 60% from the OP to join their cult. Trouble is, salvation is not by rational assent; its by a changed heart, which precedes hearing and believing the gospel. Discernment is a spiritual gift, and discerning spirits ... or the lack of one, is part of that gift. May we all increase in the gifts!

I agree. I did not judge locust to be JW, or anything else. I chose to parlay with him to see what he was about.
Regardless of what locust is, or isn't he owes no one an answer, one way or the other.
A few patient posts of truth vs locust, told me what I needed to know.
He has the truth now, what he does with it is up to him.
I'm satisfied that I gave him enough time to declare his beliefs. They don't coincide with mine, so its Adios.

[locust]

I've been trying to remember a name ... Fly something ... was it fly-paper? Something like that. Anybody else remember that? Seems like we got an insect theme going on.

Denying the deity of Christ is usually a good sign that there is not a shared Spirit of God in the conversation, which makes all further conversation moot. You cannot reason someone into a regenerate heart. And their goal is usually to attempt to convince one of the 60% from the OP to join their cult. Trouble is, salvation is not by rational assent; its by a changed heart, which precedes hearing and believing the gospel. Discernment is a spiritual gift, and discerning spirits ... or the lack of one, is part of that gift. May we all increase in the gifts!

Making Jesus into something he is not is nothing more than the worship to a false god.  a god that worship's another god is not a true God.

[ironglow]

.
  OK, so Locust; who was God talking to?

      Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."       (Gen 1:26)

[locust]

.
  OK, so Locust; who was God talking to?

      Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."       (Gen 1:26)

oh .that could be  a problem for you  .  you dont know ,which could be much of your confusion . there is scripture that does say God had a helper . the question could come up , why would the most high God need a helper ?? perhaps you think thats just silly that the God had a helper .  are you familiar enough with the bible to know who that helper proved to be ? 1 Colossians
15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist." the helper is Jesus . which still begs the problem, why would God need a helper ? 

[ironglow]

.
  OK..so you refuse to answer..   ...Are you ashamed?  I once had a JW working on my silo crew, Bob was a good worker in spite of his religion.. so I kept him on for some time..
 
   He admitted to me then, that when they do their "pioneering", they don't tell folks right off what they are, because people automatically turn off on anything they have to say.

   I guess many people have heard about the "magic wheat", the translators who couldn't translate, the world ending in 1914 and 1975, and the current scourge of child molestation..

   BTW: He was working with me, when he predicted the end in 1975.  perhaps you can tell us about the so-called,  "slow walk"...
 
 Incidently, I met up with Bob shortly after he took another job, and he told me he was no longer a slave to the watchtower.

[locust]

.
  OK..so you refuse to answer..   ...Are you ashamed?  I once had a JW working on my silo crew, Bob was a good worker in spite of his religion.. so I kept him on for some time..
 
   He admitted to me then, that when they do their "pioneering", they don't tell folks right off what they are, because people automatically turn off on anything they have to say.

   I guess many people have heard about the "magic wheat", the translators who couldn't translate, the world ending in 1914 and 1975, and the current scourge of child molestation..

   BTW: He was working with me, when he predicted the end in 1975.  perhaps you can tell us about the so-called,  "slow walk"...
 
 Incidently, I met up with Bob shortly after he took another job, and he told me he was no longer a slave to the watchtower.

perhaps you just did not like the answer

[locust]

ironglow, have you figured out why the God even needed a helper

[ironglow]

ironglow, have you figured out why the God even needed a helper

  Locust; you are incorrigible..        God needs no helper..God alone is God..Father, Son and Holy Spirit !

  Now will you admit what cult you are party to ? 

[locust]

ironglow, have you figured out why the God even needed a helper

  Locust; you are incorrigible..        God needs no helper..God alone is God..Father, Son and Holy Spirit !

  Now will you admit what cult you are party to ? 

actually the only thing that God did completely by himself was to cause the Word/Jesus to come into existence .  you should realize God is perfect in every way .No equal ,so perfect  he cannot fail .nothing is as perfect as he is . knowing that, you will find nothing in all of creation that he himself can touch . he would need someone less than himself that could . how he caused that one to come into existence was likely difficult. for he had to make someone like himself, but not himself .
Proverbs 8 The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old.
23 ''I have been established from everlasting,
From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth,
When there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled,
Before the hills, I was brought forth;
26 While as yet He had not made the earth or the [e]fields,
Or the [f]primal dust of the world.
27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there,
When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 When He established the clouds above,
When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,
29 When He assigned to the sea its limit,
So that the waters would not transgress His command,
When He marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 Then I was beside Him as [g]a master craftsman;
And I was daily His delight,
Rejoicing always before Him,''
Colossians 1:
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

[ironglow]

.
  You're avoiding answering the foremost question.  We already know that orthodox Christianity accepts the Bible proof of a triune God... so here we go again!


      NOW WILL YOU ADMIT WHAT CULT YOU ARE PARTY TO ?

[Dee]

Well ironglows, he agrees that God is perfect, but he seems to ignore Genesis Chapter 1, verses 1 through 31 where scripture tells of God being so powerful that He "spoke" everything into existence.
If your gonna believe scripture, ya gotta believe all of it. 
By saying that God can't touch this, or that, "locust is limiting Gods power".

I think locust may have been sprayed with a pesticide, and is somewhat impaired because of it. Reckon?

[locust]

.
  You're avoiding answering the foremost question.  We already know that orthodox Christianity accepts the Bible proof of a triune God... so here we go again!


      NOW WILL YOU ADMIT WHAT CULT YOU ARE PARTY TO ?

LOL ''orthodox Christianity accepts the Bible proof of a triune God'' its not a democracy so that the majority gets to decide if or if not   .
Matthew 7:14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

[ironglow]

.
  From Dee;

" I think locust may have been sprayed with a pesticide, and is somewhat impaired because of it. Reckon?
 
     Yeah..that DDT can mess things up!  Maybe he's a Confucian,..or a Taoist...hmmm....Shinto?

  So Locust...are you ready to "fess up" ?  What are you ashamed of ? 
  Even Satanists are not afraid to name their cult !

   
   

[locust]

Well ironglows, he agrees that God is perfect, but he seems to ignore Genesis Chapter 1, verses 1 through 31 where scripture tells of God being so powerful that He "spoke" everything into existence.
If your gonna believe scripture, ya gotta believe all of it. 
By saying that God can't touch this, or that, "locust is limiting Gods power".

I think locust may have been sprayed with a pesticide, and is somewhat impaired because of it. Reckon?

and who was God talking to ?