Author Topic: heres an electric car head scratcher.  (Read 495 times)

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Offline Lloyd Smale

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heres an electric car head scratcher.
« on: January 20, 2022, 11:25:21 PM »
this if from ford on there electric mustang  ( 32 degrees and 113 degrees “is most beneficial for the high voltage battery.”)  Its been near or below zero for over a week here and there calling for even colder next week. So i guess you need to heat your garage with gas to be able to charge your car to not use gas :o
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Offline VA Rifleman

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Re: heres an electric car head scratcher.
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2022, 02:50:03 AM »
Good point. Yet to meet a battery that likes cold temps. When working job sites in cold weather, I had to keep my Fluke multi meter warm inside my jacket. 

Some EV’s have built in battery heaters so it’s using power just sitting there.

After a certain number of charges, EV batteries won’t fully charge and there goes that advertised range. Charge em fast? Don’t know except most batteries don’t like that either.

https://electrek.co/2017/05/07/tesla-limits-supercharging-speed-number-charges/

“According to Tesla engineers, once vehicle has been DC fast charged over a specified amount, the battery management system restricts DC charging to prevent degradation of the battery pack. According to Tesla engineers, this vehicle has seen significant DC fast charging and is now has permanently restricted DC charging speeds”.


Guy in Europe blew up his Tesla after the dealer wanted $22k for a new battery pack.
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Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: heres an electric car head scratcher.
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2022, 05:12:08 AM »
A new company in Michigan, with a new cheaper battery, ran a Tesla model S up and down Michigan and got 752 miles on one battery charge.  This is recent in winter.  I will provide a link when I look it back up.  It uses lithium and sodium or sulfer.  No expensive cobalt needed (80% controlled by China).  If this works, he said it would be on the market within 2 years. 

To be realistic, running an air condition in summer may lower the mileage, as well as passengers and luggage.  So maybe it gets 600-650 miles.  This, being cheaper and longer range, and not depending on Chinese owned cobalt is a game changer.  If I remember, charging is also faster, especially with lithium and sodium.  This company wants to sell to all car makers and has applied for several patents. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkart/2022/01/16/michigan-startups-gemini-battery-powers-tesla-for-752-miles-on-a-single-charge/?sh=71e650872d53

The Tesla model S is their larger flagship car.  Model 3 is smaller.  Model X, I think is their SUV. 
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Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: heres an electric car head scratcher.
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2022, 06:17:57 AM »
A new company in Michigan, with a new cheaper battery, ran a Tesla model S up and down Michigan and got 752 miles on one battery charge.  This is recent in winter.  I will provide a link when I look it back up.  It uses lithium and sodium or sulfer.  No expensive cobalt needed (80% controlled by China).  If this works, he said it would be on the market within 2 years. 

To be realistic, running an air condition in summer may lower the mileage, as well as passengers and luggage.  So maybe it gets 600-650 miles.  This, being cheaper and longer range, and not depending on Chinese owned cobalt is a game changer.  If I remember, charging is also faster, especially with lithium and sodium.  This company wants to sell to all car makers and has applied for several patents. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkart/2022/01/16/michigan-startups-gemini-battery-powers-tesla-for-752-miles-on-a-single-charge/?sh=71e650872d53

The Tesla model S is their larger flagship car.  Model 3 is smaller.  Model X, I think is their SUV.
I read the article and it says nothing about charging time.
Compared to MInnesota and North Dakota winter in the Michigan Southern Peninsula is comparing zones 2-3 to zones 4-5

Michigan
  • December
    Max average t°: 33 °F (+1 °C)
    Min average t°: 19 °F (-7 °C)

    January
    Max average t°: 29 °F (-2 °C)
    Min average t°: 13 °F (-10 °C)

    February
    Max average t°: 32 °F ( 0 °C)
    Min average t°: 14 °F (-10 °C)

Minnesota
  • December
    Max average t°: 27 °F (-3 °C)
    Min average t°: 11 °F (-12 °C)

    January
    Max average t°: 22.5 °F (-5 °C)
    Min average t°: 4 °F (-16 °C)

    February
    Max average t°: 29 °F (-2 °C)
    Min average t°: 10 °F (-12 °C)
    )
Let's see them drive in the weather I have; right now it is 4 F, with highest for the next five days is forecast as 13 F with -20 at night.
I wonder , have they tested to see how long the heater lasts with the car stuck in snow bank and zero to sub-zero weather, before the people either get out and start walking and freeze to death or stay in the car and freeze to death.

Detroit is a tropical paradise compared to even Northern Michigan Peninsula , much less Minn. or North Dakota or Canada north of me.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: heres an electric car head scratcher.
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2022, 07:53:32 AM »
yup theres a big difference in temps between the upper peninsula of michigan where i live then down state and the detroit lancing area gets very little snow or cold. Been below zero ever morning for a week up here and the weather man says were in for some real cold weather next week. Old dixie really likes defending those left wing cars. Kind of strange he doesnt actually own one. I guess theres talking the talk and walking the walk.
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Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: heres an electric car head scratcher.
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2022, 10:31:31 AM »
I'm waiting for the newer batteries, lower cost of the vehicles, etc.  I am a staunch conservative, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  Electrics are here to stay.  Tesla has been in business for over 10 years.  They came out with the model S in 2010 or 2012.  The Roadster 2 seater fast car came out first a few years earlier.  Now everyone is making electrics.  Most new technology is expensive and takes time to become widespread.  The microwave came out in the 1960's but was more expensive than a typical stove.  It wasn't until the 1980's that I bought one for about $500.  Now you can get one under $100.  Same with automobiles.  No one could afford on in the 1890's or early 1900's.  It wasn't until Henry Ford made them by mass production and only in one color that people could afford one.  They people started buying them big time in the 1920's. 

Far left think we can use ONLY solar and wind to produce all our power.  Not really going to happen, you have to either have backup or huge expensive battery banks.  Now they are building higher level holding lakes to fill from below with excess wind and solar.  Then when the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, they use the back up water by hydro power.  That is what someone is doing in either West Virginia or Kentucky in an abandoned strip mine in the mountains.  Nuclear is probably the best back up if you don't want to burn gas or coal.  Germany is producing hydrogen gas from excess wind power in the North Sea and pushing 20% of it in the natural gas system mixing it with gas from Russia to cut 20% of their gas purchases.  Problem with hydrogen only is you can't see it burning, so mixing it still makes a blue flame.  This is a good idea as they can burn it to produce power when the wind is not blowing. 

There are 100's of good ideas out there.  This test was just concluded on this battery.  Running back and forth from the southern Michigan border to the tip of the mitten.  So, it was in December-January doing the test in winter.  From what I have read elsewhere on this battery it is good to -13 and up to 117 degrees.  Fairly good range for most of America.  Also someone at Northwestern in Chicago has developed a battery that can go 1,000 miles using lithium-sodium.  This one may take longer to get to market as it is still in experimental stage.  It can also charge in 5 minutes.  Things are coming down the pike.  You don't buy it when it first comes out, you wait until it is cheaper and proven.  I didn't buy a cell phone until about 6 years ago, I waited. 

Don't say something won't work, give it time and it will, usually, especially in electronics, which is what an electric car is.  The battery is the heart of the car, not the engines.  Electric motors are used on trains, and a lot of other things, big and small.  Battery development is the key.  25 years ago who had battery powered electric tools like circular saws, drills and such.  Lithium powered trolling motor batteries can go much longer than old school deep cycle batteries. 

Oh, I also don't think anything should be forced on  America.  Tesla proved 12 years ago, that you don't have to force people to buy electric cars.  Offer one with longer range, shorter charging times, and make them half way affordable, and people will buy them.  Same with wind, solar, and other alternative power.  Stopping drilling, mining, and pipelines doesn't help while transitioning to other sources.  Using a carrot instead of a stick will get more fans. 
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: heres an electric car head scratcher.
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2022, 11:10:05 PM »
they can invent a much better battery. But you still have to charge it and it would take trillions of dollars of tax money to upgrade our electrical grid to be able to charge an electric or two in every driveway in this country. Your tax burden would probably have to double to do it. Then when thats done we need power to put into the grid! Solar and wind sure cant provide enough. Coal fired and nuke power plants have nothing but closings. Maybe that electric fairy in the ground will pop up at your house and give you a charge. I just dont understand how people like you think its a given we will all be driving electrics but have no answers to the questions on how you will do it. This is a liberal agenda just like global warming that the fabricate a problem that doesnt exist. If the liberals hold on to power stand by because your going to be eating span after they get done taxing you to pay of this. If cooler more logical leaders get into to office they will stop all this nonsense. Just like henry ford making great strides car manufactures might too. But it sure shouldnt be funded by the government.  If they have to raise the price of cars to a point where the working class cant afford them and cant sell enough to stay solvent they will stop with this insane waste of money. The only thing guaranteed right now if they ban gas powered cars and demand you buy electric is that you just allowed the government to dictated to you what you are allowed to buy and taxed you so heavily that you couldnt afford it anyway. You will peddle a nice clean Schwinn while your governor rides around in an electric limo. you say your conservative but back libearl agendas. There main objectives today are electric cars. Stopping the use of fossil fuels completely, destroying christianity and abortion for all.  If it quacks like a duck its 99 percent of the time a duck. It can pretend to be an eagle but anyone with a lick of sense sees through the disguise. I want you to answer simple questions. We can forget about the price of the car. You tell me how we are going to generate the power needed to charge them all and how were going to get it to your house without taxing the hell out of the working class. untill you can come up with some solid answers to those two questions your just another cheerleader for the liberals. I dont know. Maybe you know some alien technology that i dont. I worked 8 years operating a coal fired power plant and 27 as an electrical lineman and i sure havent heard of that technology.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: heres an electric car head scratcher.
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2022, 11:48:56 PM »
heres another odd fact. I tried looking up which senators and congressmen drove electric vehicles. I couldnt find an answer any newer then 2012. 10 YEARS AGO. Have to wonder if the press and internet sites are told not to report on this. By the way in 2012 there was 8 of them that owned electric (and they threw hybrid in with them which are for the most part gas powered) Now lets look at the reality. A few of them might own one but there collecting dust in the garage while they ride around in half million dollar armored limos that us tax payers bought and that probably get 6 mpg. They take them all the way to the air port where they hop on jets that were designed to carry a 100 people and fly away with maybe 5 on board. Again all on our dime and spewing pollution. Then they come home to there 30 room mansions heated by gas and ac by electric with every high tech energy using applicance made in them. But thats them and as long as people like one on here chear them on for pushing different rules onto us then what they have to follow they will continue to. Its called socialism.
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Offline Dixie-Dude

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Re: heres an electric car head scratcher.
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2022, 03:24:33 AM »
I like any new technology.  I keep up with the space program.  Just because Tesla came out with realistic electric cars much much better than a glorified golf cart, and he also developed a reusable rocket that now has landed after launching satellites and astronauts to orbit over 100 times doesn't mean it it wrong.  Windmills in the midwest and plains states as well as west Texas have been working providing electricity for these people before Trump and Bidens stupid green new deal.  They supplement the grid.

Liberals have hijacked this new technology and now want to push it on everyone everywhere.  The technology is coming and can be used for good, but liberals want to throw out everything else we have like oil and gas.  I've been pushing for using excess power to make synthetic natural gas using the Sabatier process to push into the existing gas grid, and burn it to make electricity during peek periods.  No batteries needed.  I've also thought using solar panels over parking lots in the deep south and on top of flat top buildings would be the best places to start using them, not new solar farms taking up land.  I also think we should build smaller modular nuclear power plants that are cheaper to build, fit on the back of a flatbed truck and can be clustered depending on power needs.  I have also thought using thorium instead of uranium would be safer, less radioactive, do not get too hot to melt down, and nuclear waste is safe after 200 years, not 2000 years as uranium is. 

If we need to used alternative energy, use tax credits, not manditory laws forcing the gas use so high, you can't get a decent powered car or truck is stupid.  Also, we are going to always need oil and gas, for synthetics, rubber, medicines, etc, so why stop pipelines and drilling?  Doesn't make sense. 

Just because I like the idea of an electric car or truck that gets high mileage, and faster charging, doesn't mean I am liberal, just pragmatic.  Oil and gas are getting harder to extract and required deeper drilling, which is going to bring the price up anyway, so why not prepare for it.  Just because the Russians messed up with Chernobal, and we had Three Mile Island (which was safely shut down anyway) doesn't mean stop using nuclear power.  Just because 50,000 people are killed every year in vehicles doesn't mean we should stop using them.  There are 200 million trucks and cars in America, 98/% are using gas and diesel, and are going to be around for at least 20-50 years.  They are not going away anytime soon so yes we still need to drill.  Liberals do not understand this. 

Wind is already cheaper than natural gas for making electricity.  It is in areas where there is almost continuous wind, like coast lines and the plains states.  They are also building windmills like crazy all over the world.  Problem is, it is not for everyone.  Most people live east of the Mississippi in the US.  They will need nuclear, solar in the deep south, and windmills along the coast.  Maybe even damming up more rivers.  The Cahaba River in Alabama and the Flint River in Georgia have never been dammed up.  There is extra power there.  Lots of ways to do things.  Environmentalist try to stop anything being built, even windmills, and liberals want to force people to do what they think is right.  What is needed is pragmatic cost effective ways from both sides. 
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: heres an electric car head scratcher.
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2022, 03:50:53 AM »
wind and solar at todays technology levels are a waste of money. I will agree we need to go back and look at nukes.
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If we need to used alternative energy, use tax credits, not manditory laws forcing the gas use so high
why should we need to give tax credits. If they dont stand on there own economicaly then if you want one pay what it costs to make it. Ask the oil company's. Its not that we dont have it. we have LOTS. Its not that its hard to get out of the ground either. Its our government and liberal hippys who wont let them take it out of the ground. Remember just two years ago we were energy independent. I dont see our government giving our tax money to car manufactures to come up with more effiecient gas motors. Why is that?? Why must i have to pay taxes to allow some hippy to get a better deal on a car that in reality still pollutes. only thing different is the pollution comes out of a smoke stack instead of a tailpipe or when the day comes the batteries have to go in the landfill. you want to support tesla? Go buy one. Go buy some stock in the company. What have YOU done?? Do you drive gas cars?? Do you heat your home with gas?? Do you use power that comes from a fossil fuel power plant?? Do you mow your grass with a gas powered lawn mower or a manual real one. Own a chain saw or a buck saw?? Do you shovel snow or do you use a snow blower. Do you walk the walk or just talk the talk. i expect a picture of you standing next to your tesla parked in front of your off the grid home. If you dont and you expect me to pay more taxes so you can your not only a socialist but a hypocrite. So will back out of this one now and you can get the last word in but im betting it wont be accompanied by pictures of your tesla or mother earth home
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