Browning B78 Trigger woes

[rcmeeks]

I have seen this problem with 3 of 3 B78's I have owned.  The trigger seems to miss the sear when pulled and the damn thing won't go off.  The B78 mechanism is notoriously hard to work on.  One guy I know had to send the rifle back to Browning (long time ago, they won't work on a B78 now) to get it reassembled.  Canjar made a replacement trigger but those seem to be long gone.  Does anyone know of a detailed proceedure for solving this problem or an alternate source for an after-market trigger?  The gun is just too beautiful and accurate to give up on.  Iit's a mint condition 25.06 with the tapered octagon barrel and the guy at the pawn shop didn't know what he had.  Picked it up for $450.

[arty]

rcmeeks,

450 bucks? why cant that ever happen to me.  did you adjust the trigger and did the problem begin then or did it exist when you bought the rifle.  i find it odd that you've had 3 b78s and all 3 were disfunctional.  the triggers are very conplex and i hear alot about "how bad b78 trigger are" but have yet to see one. anyway, the trigger does not directly engage the sear, but engages an arm that engages a lever that lets go of the hammer when the trigger is pulled.  that arm needs proper spring tension in order to go where it needs to go when you pull the trigger.  right off hand i think it is lone set screw beside the trigger take up screw.  i have 6 b78s, most were as new when bought, one is still unfired in the box after 30 years, and one has little bluing left after 20 years of hunting.  in all this time with those guns i had just one problem with the factory trigger and it was due to improper adjustment by me.  i had a canjar set trigger, and it was more precarious than the factory's job and is not an improvement on a rifle used for hunting.  i am not saying that you dont have something more serious wrong, but 3 bad triggers out of 3 seems mighty strange.  i have had 78's apart and have installed/uninstalled factory jobs and canjars, there are tricky, but they work  anyway, if you cant fix it, i'd be happy to take it off your hands, and let you make a nice profit on it, too.  hope this helps.

[rcmeeks]

I'm sure you would take it off my hands!  But in all the gun deals I have made, I never before came out on this end of the stick.  I earned it.  I have not adjusted the trigger, but since I bought it used, I have no idea about its history.  The other 2 B78's had both been adjusted, and its seems the lighter you made the pull the more likely it was to malfunction.  I have noticed that a good degreasing and a light application of good oil improves the situation.  The spring tension issue seems a good place to start,  I did'nt really want to start adjusting things but with care and the right tools I may get lucky.  The drawings in the  browning manuals don't show enough detail to really understand the relationship of parts, I am hoping with the stock removed I will be able to see what is going on.  It's interesting that many people feel the canjar was no real improvement.  I agree that the browning trigger (when it works) is a fine one, for hunting or target.  I have never been prone to "trigger tantrums" as my old man used to call them.  Thanks for the reply.

[arty]

a good cleaning may indeed be all thats needed.  you should be able to see things well with the butt stock gone.  if the two screws in the trigger shoe are still sealed, then all the adjustment will be in the 3rd allen screw on the right side of the trigger.

[gewehrfreund]

I have a B78 octagon 7mm Mag that was in pretty sorry shape when I got it for $250 (bad homemade stock job, little finish, etc.). But I saw a diamond in the rough and now have a Great American LH stock on it and have refinished the metal. Also the trigger was non-functioning when I bought it, but I was able to figure it out by playing with the 3! adjustment screws (one of them is only accessible by taking the stock off as I recall). I don't think you can ever get a perfect trigger on the B78's, but mine is pretty good now. If you do an internet search or visit Browning's website, you should be able to come up with information on adjusting the trigger. I have something at home that I got off the internet.
Good luck.

[rcmeeks]

I got the whole situation figured out finally.  There are two screws on the trigger itself, the rear one is overtravel and the front one controls the position of the connector bar, which trips the sear, which lets go of the hammer.  The pull weight adjustment is in a hole in the reciever itself.  The pull weight adjustment takes a 1/16 allen wrench, but the others require a 1.5mm.  Taking the stock off allows you to see the relationship of the connector and sear, but not much else of whats going on with the trigger, but its enough.  If the connector rests too far from the sear, it misses it when the trigger is pulled.  If its too close the whole arrangement becomes inoperative.  There is a critcal point where things function.  I even managed to get into a place where the trigger would trip from half cock! But finally things were working reliably and I put the stock back on.  They stopped working, apparently the connector was again missing the sear.  Suspecting that stock shrinkage had allowed the stock bolt to stick into the action too far, I placed :grin:  a thin spring washer on the bolt head and, viola!, the whole system is operative and stable.  It will stand cocked thru a 12 inch drop onto the butt on a padded bench, and it seems I can adjust the pull weight anywhere within its range without losing contact between the connector and sear.

[gewehrfreund]

RC,
You have now the elite ranks of those who have conquered the B78 trigger! All other triggers will be child's play from here on out. :wink:

[arty]

remeeks

success!  good to hear that.  those two screws  on the trigger come sealed from the factory for a reason!  thats a good feeling when everything comes together and starts working again.  

arty

[LJOHNS]

Now that I have a 78 of my own with trigger problems I thought I should resurrect this thread!
My trigger had a lot of pre travel so I decided to do some adjusting.  Now it doesn't work at all.  So my question is where do I start and how do I remove the butt stock so that I can see what is going on?  HELP

[arty]

in order to adjust the trigger take up, you need to adjust the large blued screw with the two little holes in it. turn it clockwise and it should take up some the of the slack,however you usually cant get rid of all of it.  you'll need to get two small allen wrenches that fit in the hole and hold them tight with a pliers, or a snapring pliers if you have one that fits.  in order to take the buttstock off, you have to insert a screwdriver into one of the slots on the buttpad and unscrew one of the woodscrews. then you can unscrew the buttpad without having to fiddle with the second screw.  the buttstock is hollow and you'll need a looooong screwdriver, a big one too, to unscrew the bolt.  then you should be able to see whats happening.  the allen screw that adjusts the trigger pull (the one that is not on the actual trigger shoe) is probably the culprit.  screw it inwards while making sure the spring is engaging what it should on the inside of the action.  if you unscrewed it aways earlier, the spring can catch in the threads, and you can be adjusting all you want without the spring touching anything.  the other two screws are for sear engagement and backlash.  if youve played with them, you may be keeping the sear from engaging anything, or you may have eliminated all backlash so that the trigger cannot release. you did not specify your problem, but playing around with the three screws should let you figure out how it all works.  hope this helps as this was a lot of typing!
arty

[LJOHNS]

Arty:

Thanks for all of that info.  I adjusted the two screws on the trigger shoe itself and now I can't get anything to happen.  I am guessing that the sear is not engaging at all.  So, my next step is to remove the butt stock so I can actually get a look at what is happening.   So in review the adjustments are as follows (starting from the trigger going back) backlash, sear engagement, take up, and pull.  I am I correct?
Also, what does the screw on top (near where the hammer rests when cocked) do?  
And one last question:  I am going to buy a extra long screwdriver to remove the stock, is it a standard or a phillips screw?  
Thanks for all your help!

[arty]

ljohns,

the big screw behind the hammer deflects the empty brass when you run the lever.  keep it straight across and the brass will stop so you can pull it out with your fingers.  it clicks either 45 degrees right or 45 degrees left.  the big screwdriver should be a regular flat one, as long and with as big an end as you can get.  as far as the adjustment screws, they are from front to back,  sear engagement, backlash, take up, and to right of that is the wieght of pull.  the manual states that..." should the trigger pull force be increased too far the trigger system will become inoperative."  that is prbably what happened with you.  i have done the same thing.  you should screw that wieght of pull screw so that it is flush with the action.  then start playing with the other two screws on the trigger.  dont worry, study the action a little when you get the stock off, and you'll figure it out. good luck

[LJOHNS]

Thanks again Arty!

[LJOHNS]

Here's a little update.
I got the butt stock off last night and took a good look at things.  The pull force spring was sticking for one thing.  The take up screw seems to do little to nothing.  The conector is not hitting the sear at all.  My 6 week old daughter needed my attention most of the evening so that's as far as I got last night.  I hope to dive in tonight and get things tuned up.

[LJOHNS]

Update 2:

I got things working pretty well last night.  I lubed things up which seemed to help a great deal.  I have adjusted the take-up screw all the way in but still have some free travel before make up.  Unless I make some modifications thats probably as good as that is going to get.  

I have the pull tension spring set as light as I could go and keep things working.  Overall the trigger is better than before.  I may do a little more tweaking tonight and then call it good!  With the stock off it is easy to see what is going on and make adjustments.  Its really not all that complicated.   I received a copy of the owner manual from Browning which helped a little but the drawing is not the best.