Lee Carbide Factory crimp die . . . . can't get it to work

[MGMorden]

Ok, I'm back again with another question (I promise I only ask each thing once and then I'll remember ).  I've got a set of Lee dies for the 7.62 Tokarev pistol cartridge.  Resizing goes fine on spent cases, then I seat the bullet and all seems well, but trouble arises when I try to use the Lee Carbide Factory crimp die.  If I set the die to what seems the proper height, it just pulls the bullet out of the case (and flares the case mouth), so I pull the rod back down and the bullet is left in the die  :?.  If I turn the die down a bit more, I can slide the case back up in, and it crimps, but the crimp is WAY too tight, and the bullet is seated way too far back into the case.  Has anybody heard of this?  If not, could you at least tell me how to work this darned die.  The instructions that came with it mention the features of the crimp die, but they somehow forget to tell you how to actually use the thing  :?.

[New Hampshire]

 Its been a while since I had to actually adjust one of these dies, but here is the process as I remember it:  Put a case in the shellholder and pull the arm so the ram is at the top most position.  Unscrew the knob on top of the die far enough so it wont touch the case yet as you install the die.  Screw the die in till it touches the shell holder.  Now screw the knob in till you feel resistance.  This is the crimper contacting the case mouth.  Move the arm up a bit to lower the case and screw the top knob in as far as you need to get the crimp you want.  Half a turn will give you a medium crimp a full trun a heavy crimp.  You can infinately adjust between that, from no trun up to a full turn.  Why the bullet is getting stuck in there I do not know.  I know the Tok has a pretty short neck considering, but if it was seated to the proper depth I dont know why it is being pulled.  Tell us if this is how you do it above.  If not we might be able to help you better.
Brian M
P.S. The process above is with a case with seated bullet, forgot to add that, sorry.

[Perferator]

This may sound rather obvious or elementary but do keep in mind that pressures are increased with FCD.  If anyone has worked up max loads before using this die, do so with caution and a chrony.  It's been reported that a substantial increase in fps (and the attending pressure) will occur even when "tightening" the crimp adjuster...i.e. from med to tight crimp.

Perferator

[Tom W.]

The factory crimp die has no knobs., it's just a collet die to put a crimp on the case mouth as a final (and extra) step in the loading process.

[New Hampshire]

Bama Boy, you are thinking of the Rifle Factory crimp dies.  The Lee Pistol Factory Crimps DO have knobs and are NOT collet dies.
Brian M.

P.S. Here is the Lee page for the Factory crimp dies.  If you scroll down to the Pistol dies you will see the knob on top.
http://www.leeprecision.com/catalog/browse.cgi?1079874850.1508=dies-p3.html

And also, I was wrong on one thing, turning the knob a half turn is for a Light crimp, while a full turn is a heavy crimp.  Adjust in-between.

[New Hampshire]

Ok MG, we might have a slight problem here.  Ive been doing a bunch of searching on the net and have run into a problem.  First, I dont think you have a set of carbide dies.  Unless Im thinking of another cartridge the 7.62x25 is a bottleneck right?  Well Lee (hell for that matter no manufacturer I know of,) makes carbide dies for bottlenecked cartridges.  Midway USA only lists 3 die steel sets.  There is NO factory crimp die made for that cartridge.  Do you have to lube your cases?  If so it is a steel die set.  
Brian M.

[MGMorden]

Ok, I feel quite thoroughly stupid now  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops: .

I was trying to crimp with an expanding die.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

[Tom W.]

Mee too. I don't have any Lee dies with the factoy crimp die for pistols, just for the rifles. :oops:

[New Hampshire]

Its quite alright guys.  MG, if you had not asked the question you would probably still be ripping your hair out.  And Bama, its quite understandable about the difference between the rifle and pistol crimp dies.  No harm no foul and in the end everyone is safe   .
Brian M.