Author Topic: Spirituality vs. Self/Family Defense? (Read 1861 times)

NYH1 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 22, 2004, 06:38:50 PM »

Quote from: ironglow

Yes NYHunter; I too have been called upon to deliver the Gospel;

If thats what you believe, ok! :-)

Quote from: ironglow

if you don't like the music...spin your dial!

I won't...spin anything! :wink:

Quote from: ironglow

I won't force my message on anyone,

Thank you! :-D

Quote from: ironglow

nor do I expect them to attempt to curtail my 1st ammendment rights!

Me neither! :toast:

MSP Ret · « **Reply #31 on:** March 23, 2004, 01:34:16 AM »

NYHunter, please take no offense and don't become defensive to some of our statements and responses here. I went back and read all you have posted on this thread and rather than being offended or becoming defensive see nothing you wrote that was wrong. As a matter of fact I see it as inquisitive, the first step at opening up and learning, or at least hearing. And don't get scared, but that is the first step to being "called", at least is was for me. Ask away, disagree if you want, but please continue to ask who, why and how. Your welcome to sit around my campfire anytime to talk and ask questions, I surely am less qualified than most around here to answer them but I bet we have fun, especially when I tell you the story about the time when this one time cynic was finally "called" while going about 90 mph, and no it was because of a near miss or scary incident, in fact it was a nice bright early evening. For you and yours, I hope and will pray it happens to you, sooner than late. From my experience it's better that way....<><.... :grin:

ironglow · « **Reply #32 on:** March 23, 2004, 02:11:44 AM »

MSP:
You are right...perhaps I was a bit short on patience...
I should have remembered that the uninitiated are often inquiring and confused by some of our statements....see... 1 Cor2:14..
NYH...sorry for my impatience...
As MSP said...you may be at the point where a real investigation of The Faith may be in order.

Mikey · « **Reply #33 on:** March 23, 2004, 03:47:39 AM »

Was she single????? Mikey.

NYH1 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 23, 2004, 06:59:44 AM »

You guys don't have to be "sorry" for anything! :-) Like I said before I respect everyone's right to believe in what ever religion they want.

I guess I do believe in god some what. I am Catholic. I only go to church for weddings and funerals. I have not intentions of changing that.

My grandfather was the first generation of a German family born in the US. He was in WWII, he was in the 14th Armored Division, and fought in the "Battle of the Bulge". His tank got hit, two guys died, him and one guy lived. He was messed up real bad the rest of his life. He passed away in 1999 at 81 years old.
My father was in Vietnam, 25th Infantry Division from 3/67 to 3/68. He's also a recovered alcoholic sense '85 and a cancer surviver from '90. He's been through "plant closings" and just about everything bad that can happen to a person.

I have more respect for these to men especially my father then I do for any ten people in this world. My father is the only person I truly trust 100%. All the thing these two men have been through they never where religious at all. Honestly not at all. If it worked for them it will work for me. If you knew the character of these two men you might understand why I feel this way. :wink:

Again I don't see how someone can say they've been "called" by someone that may or may not exist. I hope he does, but nobody really knows. That being said with all do respect.

handirifle · « **Reply #35 on:** March 23, 2004, 11:14:16 AM »

NYH
It's very easy to see why those men meant the world to you. They probably GAVE more than 10 men. War is hell, for sure and oftimes leaves men to live or re-live it for many long years afterwards.

I'm sorry to hear of their sufferrings. Adolph Hitler killed WAY more than 6,000,000 jews, he killed about 5 or 6 million other good men as well, those that gave to free the world of his tyranny, and I would not want to be him when he stands before God at the judgement throne.

As far as the "religion" as you put it, I hope, but do not believe, for your sake we are wrong and you are right. If that is the case then a lot of us have lived our lives believing in something false. If we are right, then the consequences are far more dire.

MSP put it well and I mirror his comments. Nothing meant to put you on the defense or attack for that matter. It's just that when you go through the life changing experiences we have, with the meeting of our Savior Christ Jesus, it's hard to not share it with someone that hasn't meat Him yet.
If you ever want to read the book of Acts, the first several chapters. Notice how the man called Saul treated Christians until his little trip to Damascus. Where by the way he was headed to bring Christians back for torture. He met Christ on that road and read on a bit to see how it affected this man. The man who hated Christians. It's worth an hours reading, believe me.

Imagine the excitement we get when our new rifle puts 3 shots in one hole at 100yds and multiple that to the level of about 100 to the tenth power. I know my life was plodding along OK, until I made one MAJOR screw up and was watching it go completly belly up. It was then the I found myself sitting at the lawn of the church where my girlfriend had taken me a couple times with my motorcycle parked in front of me. The pastor drove up, walked up to me and began talking to me. He asked if I was OK and I surprised myself when I said, NO. We talked further in his office and it was there I gave my life and heart to Christ.

I have seen things from a different light completely since then. The old song of "I once was blind, but now I see" really started to make sense to me from then on.

As MSP said, I too, hope and pray for you that your curiosity has struck you for a reason and, more importantly, that you don't ignore why it did.

Something to think about. take care.

Major · « **Reply #36 on:** March 23, 2004, 03:08:25 PM »

Quote from: ironglow

Handirifle did a great job of explaining my theological roots also.
Naturally, realizing the jewish roots to my own faith...I carry, as many Bible-believing Christians do..a real respect for Jews and Israel!

I have to say this about Jewish roots. Go to the book of Galatians 3, Verses 7, 8 and 9. Christians are more than just having Jewish roots. According to the scriptures I just showed, we are blessed with Abraham and are considered the same as the children of Abraham. Therefore the Hebrews are our Brothers. While they are Gods chosen people, so are we, through faith, adopted through and by Jesus into that group of chosen people.

PS: For those that don't know the Latin in my signature, LAUS DEO means "All praise be to God".

handirifle · « **Reply #37 on:** March 23, 2004, 05:13:55 PM »

Amen Major!

Major · « **Reply #38 on:** March 23, 2004, 06:21:55 PM »

Quote from: handirifle

Amen Major!

Thank you sir.

ironglow · « **Reply #39 on:** March 24, 2004, 01:58:54 AM »

Handi....

I really wanted to explain the joy of salvation to NYH, without being overbearing.....
You did it so well....I cannot add a word!

Question for the saved....

After you accepted Christ as Savior , what was the biggest piece of "return evidence" or proofs to yourself of solid conversion?

I realized shortly after being saved, that the Bible had "opened up" to me. That is to say; I had read the Bible time and again before salvation, qand frankly; I couldn't get a great deal out of it!
Once saved....it seems as if the "scales had fallen from my eyes". Scripture suddenly was clear, concise, and to the point!!!

After many years, dealing in an enlightened way with The Scriptures,
I still marvel at the range, depth and manifold meanings found, even in the smallest verse.

BTW...What is the shortest verse in the Bible?

Ok...OK...John11:35..."Jesus wept"

I once preached an entire sermon on that verse...( appx 45 min).

Still hadn't begun to exhaust it's treasures!

Major · « **Reply #40 on:** March 24, 2004, 07:33:44 AM »

Quote from: ironglow

I realized shortly after being saved, that the Bible had "opened up" to me. That is to say; I had read the Bible time and again before salvation, qand frankly; I couldn't get a great deal out of it!
Once saved....it seems as if the "scales had fallen from my eyes". Scripture suddenly was clear, concise, and to the point!!!

I would say that was a big one for me too. :-) :oh: :yeah:

RIFLERANGER · « **Reply #41 on:** March 24, 2004, 08:23:17 AM »

Quote from: MSP Ret

Hey Ranger, I am a catholic, if not devout, however I am a devout Christian. Couple that with a lifetime of contact sports and 32+ years in law enforcement, local, state, and a special appointment as a Federal officer/US Marshall while undercover drugs and assigned to the DEA for a specific assignment. This after an honorable discharge from the US Navy. I must state I am all for turning the other cheek, of course it would not be to allow the scum-bag, who I am sure I would love as a Christian brother, to strike me again, but more so that he would not see me smiling as I reached out to help pick up his unconcious carcass from the pavement. I will pray for all those who would not try to defend themselves now, that I am there when they need defending or that they learn to do it themselves....<><.... :grin:

AMEN, my brother !!

It seems to me that the first ones who come looking for "our" help are the ones who refused to believe that they could ever need us.....

Ranger

MSP Ret · « **Reply #42 on:** March 24, 2004, 09:13:05 AM »

Isn't it strange Ranger that some people won't even defend themselves and yet others of us are willing to defend us all??? A quandry for sure since we all answer to the same Lord and read the same bible....<><.... :?

handirifle · « **Reply #43 on:** March 24, 2004, 11:30:17 AM »

Ironglow
Thanks for the kind words.

I have to say, for me, not only the opening of the word for my understanding, but the revelation to me of what was right and wrong with how I lived my life. There was also, in time, a sense of guilt when I wandered back towards that old life. Guilt was a new feeling to me then.

Now the guilt can be temered with gladdness and understanding of what causes me to fail and the price paid for my failings.

Like Saul on the road to Damascus, my eyes were opened and I began to see the promise of life.

Major · « **Reply #44 on:** March 24, 2004, 11:38:40 AM »

Quote from: MSP Ret

Isn't it strange Ranger that some people won't even defend themselves and yet others of us are willing to defend us all??? A quandry for sure since we all answer to the same Lord and read the same bible....<><.... :?

Ah MSP Ret, I know so many that read that same bible but understand not what they read. Like ironglow said above, understanding comes when the vale is lifted, by the Holy Spirit in us, so we can see clearly. It isnt how often we go to church or how many times we read the bible that make the understanding. Its coming to know The Father that does it and sadly there are many that read and do not know Him.

jh45gun · « **Reply #45 on:** March 24, 2004, 03:25:16 PM »

Though I am Catholic I have problems at times with turning the other cheek bit depends on the situation some folks you would not dare do that!! :roll: As far as defending my self you got to remember in the times of War the chaplins of the service told their congregations that it was ok to kill in time of war and to defend ones self. Cannot the same apply to us? Also on the Muslim/Christian thing I know lots of muslims are not the extremist and are good people but for those who want to kill us and are the extremist a bullet is the only answer to get rid of the rag head trash!!! We have a problem with these terrorist as they do not wear a uniform as a soldier does so we do not know who the enemy is which is difficult to know friend from foe. Expecially with the sleeper cells here in our country waiting to be unleashed. I personally do not know any muslims but would hesitate knowing any for the above reason. yea it may be not the right attitude but I cannot help it. It is the way I feel be it right or wrong. A lot of folks say it is just the extremist who hate the US but I tell you from the pictures you see on the news either there is a damn lot of extremist or it is fashionable to hate the US and I think it is a bit of both! Jim

ironglow · « **Reply #46 on:** March 24, 2004, 05:26:35 PM »

JH45gun;
As you explained your personal dilemma concerning whether to shoot the enemy or not....it came to my mind: did you ever see that classic old move starring gary Cooper as Sgt. Alvin York?
He went through the same mental struggle. Once he understood the gravity of the situation, he proceeded to become a "super-soldier".

jh45gun · « **Reply #47 on:** March 24, 2004, 06:26:51 PM »

Ironglow, you maybe misunderstood me. I have never had the situation yet and if or when I do I am positive that I could kill an other to protect myself or others. I just said about the chaplins because we are in a war wether we like it or not and in a case of protecting one or others I do not think it is a sin to use deadly force. I think we have the right to protect ourselves and should if the situation calls for it. Like they say it is better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. I just hope that any of us that gets into said situation has a iron clad rightious shoot so the law does not think other wise as things can get muddied up. These days shoot first and let the court settle it later does not always work considering the way the courts work these days. :x

ironglow · « **Reply #48 on:** March 25, 2004, 01:57:13 AM »

JH45gun;
Guess I did misunderstand you....sorry about that!
I still reccommend tha old film about Sgt. Alvin York....for everyone.

Major · « **Reply #49 on:** March 26, 2004, 02:45:48 PM »

Just when this post was getting some good solid responses it seems to have slowed up. Come on guys. Lets hear some more.

RIFLERANGER · « **Reply #50 on:** March 27, 2004, 07:39:16 AM »

Quote from: MSP Ret

Isn't it strange Ranger that some people won't even defend themselves and yet others of us are willing to defend us all??? A quandry for sure since we all answer to the same Lord and read the same bible....<><.... :?

MSP, it goes far beyond that.
What gets me is bible or no bible, religious or atheist, the tree hugging, leftwinger, anti gunner, animal rights crying, non violent peacenicks who give us gun owners / lovers / collectors a whole bunch of grief regarding our personal decision to excercise our 2nd amendment rights and defend ourselves and who make a stink about guns everytime a crime is committed with one, yet I have no doubt they will be the first ones to stand BEHIND us if the crap ever hit the fan.
Hypocrites one and all.
Ranger