Author Topic: World Court: U.S. Violated Prisoners' Rights  (Read 610 times)

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Offline BamBams

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World Court: U.S. Violated Prisoners' Rights
« on: March 31, 2004, 01:56:38 AM »
Ummm.....I never knew that the US was subjected to a "World Court?"  Did you?  I can't find this in our constitution anywhere?

"The United Nations' (search) highest judiciary, also known as the world court, was considering whether 52 convicted murderers had received their right to assistance from their government in a case filed by Mexico.

"The U.S. should provide by means of its own choosing meaningful review of the conviction and sentence" of the Mexicans, presiding judge Shi Jiuyong said.

Shi Jiuyong said the court had found the United States violated its obligations in all but five cases in Mexico's case. He said the review, in almost all cases, could be carried out under the normal appeals process in the United States.

"In each of these 47 (remaining) cases the duty to inform without delay has been violated," he said. The court also dismissed four U.S. objections of its jurisdiction.

The world court is charged with resolving disputes between nations and has jurisdiction over the treaty.

At the heart of the Mexico-U.S. case is the 1963 Vienna Convention, which guarantees people accused of a serious crime while in a foreign country the right to contact their own government for help and that they be informed of that right by arresting authorities.

The United States is portraying the case as a sovereignty issue, and says the 15-judge tribunal should be wary of allowing itself to be used as a criminal appeals court, which is not its mandate.

In hearings in December, lawyers for Mexico argued that any U.S. citizen accused of a serious crime abroad would want the same right, and the only fair solution for the 52 men allegedly denied diplomatic help was to start their legal processes all over again.

Juan Manuel Gomez said that Mexico "doesn't contest the United States' right as a sovereign country to impose the death penalty for the most grave crimes," but wants to make sure its citizens aren't abused by a foreign legal system they don't always understand.

U.S. lawyer William Taft argued that the prisoners had received fair trials. He said even if the prisoners didn't get consular help, the way to remedy the wrong "must be left to the United States."

In its written arguments, the United States said that Mexico's request would be a "radical intrusion" into the U.S. justice system, contradicting laws and customs in every city and state in the nation.

"The court has never ordered any form of restitution nearly as far reaching as that sought by Mexico," the arguments said.

In 2001, a similar case came before the court filed by Germany to stop the execution of two German brothers who also had not been informed of their right to consular assistance. One brother was executed before the court could act. The judges ordered a stay of execution for the second brother, Walter LaGrand, until it could deliberate, but he was executed anyway by the state authorities of Arizona.

Under the court's statute, its judgments are "binding, final and without appeal." Its rulings have only rarely been ignored, and if one side claims the other has failed to carry out the court's decision, it may take the issue to the U.N. Security Council.

When the court finally handed down the belated ruling in 2001, it chastised the U.S. government for not halting the LaGrand execution, and rejected arguments that Washington was powerless to intervene in criminal cases under the authority of the individual states.

The U.S. written argument urged the court to follow the remedy it suggested in the LaGrand case, and quoted from the court's decision in that case:

"The United States, by means of its own choosing, shall allow the review and reconsideration of the conviction and sentence."

In the current case, the court ordered the United States to halt the execution process of three Mexicans, two in Texas and one in Oklahoma, until the ruling.

The prisoners are still alive. The first of the men, Osbaldo Torres, is scheduled to be executed in Oklahoma in May.

Mexican President Vicente Fox canceled a visit to President Bush's ranch in 2002 to protest the execution of a Mexican citizen not mentioned in the world court suit. The visit finally took place earlier this month."
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Offline handirifle

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World Court: U.S. Violated Prisoners' Right
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2004, 10:24:10 AM »
I say to the UN and Pres Fox to put their lips where the sun don't shine :x .  Commit a crime in their countries and see if they call here for help for you.  It won't happen.

Tell the UN to disband because they are a useless orginazation ruled mostly by arab nations anyway :x
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Offline jh45gun

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World Court: U.S. Violated Prisoners' Right
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2004, 10:40:27 AM »
All you guys and I know the UN has to go but we need to get some politicians with a large enough set to tell them we are gone. I doubt if it will happen though unless they try to screw us over in a way that really would tick off a president and the congress that is in office at the time. The UN wants to BAN our guns and make us a country like the rest of them so we do not have super power status anymore. These folks are dangerous and we need to kick them out of the country and use the UN building for other uses. Let them build a headquarters in frog land!!  :evil:
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Leftoverdj

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World Court: U.S. Violated Prisoners' Right
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2004, 03:46:05 AM »
In at least one of those cases, the Mexican did not know he was a Mexican until his appeals lawyer started looking for ways to get his guilty ass off. He had been brought to Virginia as a baby and reared here.

Foreign nationals who ask for consular assistance get it, but it's common for illegals to hide their status, and there is no good way for cops to tell immediately who is foreign and who is not.
It is the duty of the good citizen to love his country and hate his gubmint.

Offline Major

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World Court: U.S. Violated Prisoners' Right
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2004, 10:01:43 AM »
Quote from: handirifle
I say to the UN and Pres Fox to put their lips where the sun don't shine :x .  Commit a crime in their countries and see if they call here for help for you.  It won't happen.

Tell the UN to disband because they are a useless orginazation ruled mostly by arab nations anyway :x


What handirifle said!!     :toast:
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Offline ironglow

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World Court: U.S. Violated Prisoners' Right
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2004, 02:13:59 AM »
Yeah sure;
    Have you heard anything about the world court condemning the Muslim countries for violating women's, Christian's and dissenter's rights?
   Rather shoots down their credibility, doesn't it!
 
    Time for a clear constitutional amendment stating that                "No earthly court shall over rule or supersede the United States Supreme court."

   Actuqally, that could get us in trouible too, Liberal judges are now looking to Europe for "judicial wisdom".

   Stupid Liberals! Europe has nothing to offer us by way of wisdom , ambition or morals.
   Those people who for the most part, consider themselves "culturally superior" to this crude frontier outpost, are the ones that brought us Nazism, Communism/ Socialism and today, rampant anti-semitism.
 
  Clearly, we don't need their advice!
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Mikey

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ironglow
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2004, 04:23:15 AM »
I agree with you about 4 or 5000 percent.  Mikey.