Need wildcat opinions

[Moe]

Here is what I hunt: Javalina 40lbs, Cous Deer max 75 lbs, jackrabbit, coyote, other small vermin and critters. I also have both an Encore and Contender, what wildcat caliber would you choose, for either gun and what length barrel and why. My max distance is maybe 200 yards on a good day.

Thanks in advance.

[onesonek]

Hi Moe,
  Considering the size of the animals you mentioned, I'm thinking a dual purpose round, no less than .243 caliber. The first cartridge that came to mind is the 6mmBRM,( maximized 30-30 case)  as it can be chambered in the Contender as well the Encore. The Encore can be loaded to higher pressures, extending the range. I think the 15" barrel would be good, as most (?) holsters will accept these lengths. 55gr. BT's and 85 gr. NP's would be my choice out of a 1-10" barrel, maybe even a 1-8" in the Contender.
  I haven't ran the ballistics on this, but I'm thinking 150 yds. would reasonable in the Contender. The Encore would might be ok out to 200. (on the larger species) But I would like to check the terminal energies before i made any hard judgments there.
I'm thinking about having a 6mmBRM done up for a varminting pistol. But wouldn't hesitate using it on antelope at reasonable ranges. And personally I think the Encore is the better option here, as a dual purpose. I do have the 7mmBRM in a 24 ", and like it very much, it's just too much for yotes though, in my opinion. The 6mmBRM should be about 200fps slower the .243 win in performance, if you want a comparision.
Dave

[Javelina]

Hello Moe,

Glad to see you back bro'!

Make this easy on yourself and get a factory, BB or VV 15" .223 Encore barrel in factory taper.  If you get your wood from VV, they do a cool pillar bedding on the forend that doesn't cost much extra - if you get a laminate forend, it will also be more stable than wood and they're super easy to finish (just MinWax 'em and spray 'em with Tru-Oil).  Just make sure to get a 9" to 10" twist to handle the 55 grain bullets for those monster Coues deer!   :grin:   I just shot my namesake animal (Javelina) a few weeks back with my own Encore .223 with the same setup I describe above, the shot was at 125 yards or so and was a one-shot kill, he dropped like a rock.  The .223 Rem has plenty of horsepower for our small Coues deer here - I think I can speak with some knowledge of what's good and bad for them since I've killed 33 of them.  A .223 Rem Encore is great and even at 200 yards, I'd take the shot with confidence as long as it was a standing shot.

The .223 Rem cases are cheap, you don't use much powder, bullets are cheap and plentiful (I use both 50 grain Nosler BT's and Hornady BT's on everything), recoil in the Encore is not even worth mentioning, accuracy is superb, and I know you thought you were going to get off easy without me mentioning INDEXING but I can't let you off that easily, here's the gun below and the average target I shoot with mine when I index my reloading procedures.

The gun:



The target:



My barrel is a T/C SS Encore factory taper .223, it's not even a fancy custom barrel - it used to be a 2" grouper before I indexed.  Now I wouldn't part with it for anything!

Safe and good shooting to you - and blessings to the family!  

Javelina

[Lone Star]

Make this easy on yourself and get a factory, BB or VV 15" .223 Encore barrel in factory taper....

I'm not arguing here, just a question:  why on earth get the Encore barrel?  Both frames are more than strong enough for any .223 loading, and the Contender is so much handier in the field.  For bench shooting the heavier Encore may have an advantage - ditto for varmints - but for game hunting?  Hmmm, just a thought.

I've shot five deer with a .223 rifle ( 16" CAR ) and the old 60-grain Nosler Solid Base bullet.   I used just six shots ( fist deer I shot twice but after that I saw that one was plenty ).  The only caveat is that all shots were perfectly placed - I passed up quite a few to get the right placement.  If I had needed to take a quartering shot or to break any heavy bones the .223 would not have doen so well.  As it was I only recovered one bullet, under the hide on the off side after breaking two ribs.  It looked like a regular game bullet, perfectly expanded.  I've used lots of Ballistic Tips bullets on deer in larger calibers ( .257", .264", .308" ), but only in the game designs, not the varmint bullets like the 50-grainers.  I know it works for you, but I'd prefer a bit tougher bullet myself.  To each his own - keep them deer tippin' over!

[B_Koes]

Here is what I hunt: Javalina 40lbs, Cous Deer max 75 lbs, jackrabbit, coyote, other small vermin and critters. I also have both an Encore and Contender, what wildcat caliber would you choose, for either gun and what length barrel and why. My max distance is maybe 200 yards on a good day.

Thanks in advance.

Based on the above criteria I believe that your best option would be the 6TCU for the Contender from a 14" or 15" barrel.  If you select the Encore then I would take advantage of a little more case capacity and go with the 6 BR from a similar length barrel.  This gives you plenty of choice in bullets as you will want a tougher bullet when going after Javelina or deer (something in the 80-90gr range) or lighter bullet when after small stuff (55-75gr range).

I don't think the 6BRM is a bad choice as you will surely get a little more velocity than from the 6 TCU...I just don't think it is enough to go with the bigger head size and make stretching your frame easier.  The little 6 TCU will give you PLENTY of velocity to make things happen.

Truth be told, there are lots of cartridges in the 6mm to .30 cal range that will do a fine job for you.  I'll list some of the ones if you want to research them...

TCU series (6, 6.5, & 7) - based on improved .223 case
BR series (6, 6.5 & 7) - based on BR case
BRM series (6, 6.5, 7, .300) - based on improved .30-30 case
 * other similar entries... Bullberry series, Classic series, etc.
JDJ series (6, .257, 6.5 & 7) - based on improved .225 case
US series (6.5 & 7) - based on .219 Donaldson Wasp so I guess this is technically a .30-30 based cartridge.

Well I hope I've given you some information to look into, but not totally confused you.  Like I said, I prefer the 6 TCU rounds or the 6 BR.  The 6 BR give you the advantage of having factory brass available.

[palgeno]

In my non-humble and biased opinion, I'd say 6.5 JDJ for versatility--- 85, 100, 120, 125, and 140 gr bullets are available with proper construction for good terminal performance and can give high enough velocities for flat shooting. Recoil not a problem.  Good for mice to moose. :grin:   PG

[Hopalong7]

Moe, my deer are a bit bigger than yours, but I still would agree with palgeno, The 6.5JDJ is it.  I haven't shot 125's or 140's, but wouldn't be afraid to try'm. The 85 SierraHP is great for varmits of all sizes along with 100gr bt's and deer shot with 120BT's or 120 Speer SP just simply fall over dead. Haven't tried anything bigger, but there are all kinds of stories about people who have.  It would give you the option of hunting larger animals if the oppurtunity arose.  If you can't tell I'm just a little biased myself.  I couldn't argue w/ that 6TCU or .223 either though.  Isn't it great that you have so many good options.  GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt   :grin:

[Lone Star]

I don't think the 6BRM is a bad choice as you will surely get a little more velocity than from the 6 TCU...I just don't think it is enough to go with the bigger head size and make stretching your frame easier.  The little 6 TCU will give you PLENTY of velocity to make things happen...

The BR will give a lot more power than the TCU will in some loadings.  Max load data from Accurate, both in 14" barrels:

6TCU/80SP = 2526 fps - 1134 fpe
6 BR/80 SP = 2809 fps - 1402 fpe

So the BR gives 24% more energy than the TCU does, and more velocity to give more reliable expansion of bullets.  In the Encore frame stretching isn't an issue like it is with the Contender, so the larger BR case diameter won't matter.  Still, the TCU will work with the proper bullets - most 6mm bullets are not designed to expand at 6TCU velocities, so bullet selection is more important than with the 6BR or the .243.  

While I've killed 5 deer with the .223, I won't do it again - it was really a stunt.  I've killed many others with the .25 Bullberry and 100-grain BTips, with the .300 Savage/150BTips, the .35 Remington with various bullets, and various larger caliber handgun cartridges.  Cartridges like the 6.5BR, 6.5 JDJ and larger are better choices even for small deer IMO; they give better potential under less-than-ideal shooting conditions with little penalty in recoil or report.

[Javelina]

Hello Moe,

You sure got an earful here!  The best thing about all these opinions is that they are all good alternatives.  I'm sticking by the .223 Encore, but I must agree with the 6.5 JDJ being a great choice.  On our javelinas here in Arizona, unless it's loaded right, there will likely be some fairly extensive meat damage with the 6.5 JDJ because the javelinas are so small, but I still like that caliber and own one on the Contender platform myself - it's hard to argue with and it's definitely a keeper.  All the other suggestions are great too.

Lone Star: I always prefer the Encores because of the longer standard barrel and the way they feel in my hand.  I know many people really like the Contenders, and they're great too (I have several), but my real preference is with the Encore.  The good news here is that there are no bad choices for our friend Moe.  Enjoy your Contenders, I support you all 100%.

I like the 6TCU idea a lot because it's based on the .223 Rem case.  It's still easy on powder, it has very low recoil and the caliber is easy to reload and can be extremely accurate - it's pretty hard to find any negatives there.

I envy you Moe, you have so many good cartridge choices and you're the one who gets to decide on which one comes to live at your house!  I'm jealous!   :roll:  Let us know what the final verdict is. . .I'm sure dying to know.

Safe and good shooting to you all!  

Javelina

[Elwood]

Hello Neighbor,
I live in Bisbee and I have taken a few local whitetail and Javilina. I mostly specialize in mulies. Although the 223 is perfect for Javilinas it is not perfect for deer. I have killed several whitetails with a 223 rifle I don't recommend it. I have also experienced failures and quit hunting deer with it. The 7-30 Waters is a magical round in the Contender and every bit as good as the 6.5 JDJ. Reloading dies are cheap. Ammo is available at Jensen's. The 7-30 Waters will not overkill a Javilina but will drop every properly hit deer.

Elwood

[Gregory]

Not a wildcat, but the 300 Whisper would cover everything you hunt pretty well.  I'd get a 12" barrel for a Contender.  125 gr Nosler ballistic tips would be a good first choice in bullets.

[jamie]

Why not try a 223 Middlestead.   It's a 243 necked down.

[Moe]

Guys, thanks for all the replies, many of which I own or have owned already. Presently I have Encores in 6Br(thinking about selling that one), and .256 Super Mag Carbine, deadly accurate. Contender I have 12"6TCU, 14" .357 Max, and 10" .30 Herrett. Still working on loads for the .30, but I really like that caliber. I may consider a little bit longer barrel, 11' or 12". The 6TCU shoots like a dream with virtually no recoil. The .256 is so accurate in my arms, that its hard to believe. Thinking about getting it rechambered to .257JDJ or .250 Savage. Already HAD a 25 Bullberry and it was a fine shooter. I had a 7-30 Waters for many years and still have quite a bit of factory and reloaded ammo for it. It was a fine shooting factory barrel also. The 6.5JDJ is fine, but I don't always like to get "what everyone elsedoes", doesn't mean I won't though. Had a .358JDJ four port magna-port. Why to hot for me. I guess I am leaning towards a 6mm, not sure which one.JD thinks a 6mm is like for the game I have listed, not the vermin. Truth is I don't kill many deer or Javalina.
I do know where there is an Encore 25-08 new custom barrel for sale with dies. I have always liked .25's also. Just trying to get down to a couple calibers. Pretty tough when you have 5 frames, including a G2....

[jamie]

Well if you are leaning to a 6mm try a 6mm-06,  it should have all the range you need.

[Lone Star]

Why not try a 223 Middlestead. It's a 243 necked down.....Well if you are leaning to a 6mm try a 6mm-06,  it should have all the range you need.

I think that our friend isn't too interested in powerful cartridges for his smaller-sized game.  The necked-down .243 gives too much recoil and report, excessive muzzle velocity for edible game and a short barrel life.  Ditto the 6-06.  Both will work in a handgun barrel, but they are much less efficient due to the "excessive" charges they burn compared to the bore size.  Because of this they perform best in barrels over 24" long.  Smaller-capacity cases are much more efficient in short barrels, and the choices given - 6TCU, 6.5JDJ, .300 Whisper, etc. are much more efficient yet have adequate power for his needs.

[crawfish]

Say you like 25s' so do I . Think a 15 inch Encore in .25WSSM would be a hoot. I just (FEB 8th) got a Browning in .243WSSM think that also would be a hoot in an Encore. Any of the SSK Whisper rounds would get you there with low recoil and reported very fine accuracy.

[Captainkev]

1 word............................308.
You can load or buy factory ammo from 149 to 200 gr.
It will shoot out to 300 yards very effectively if you do your part.
You can shoot varmits, deer, sheep, antelope, and up to medium size hogs with no problem.

Kevin