Star Super B extraction problem

[1911WB]

Some time ago I posted about FTF's on my Star Super B 9mm P. Well, I finally disassembled the external extractor, and there was a lot of gunk in the slot. I cleaned it well, examined the spring (it looked okay) & put it back together. The problem of fired cases not coming completely out of the chamber is less frequent now, but is still there. Any other comments or thoughts?  :roll:

[1911WB]

Sorry, the above post should have said FTE's, not FTF's.  :?

[Mikey]

1911 - what ammo are you using and what to the fired cases that fail to extract look like?  Gun Test magazine just ran a review on the Star Model Bs and loved them.  Parts are available, or should be, from Gun Parts Corp, and aftermarket barrels should also be available.  Let's examine the ammo and fired cases first and see what we have, and go on from there.  HTH.  Mikey.

[1911WB]

Mikey- thanks for the willingness to help. I used Win. White Box ball & Rem. ball. The cases looked normal- not buldged or excessively marked.

[Mikey]

1911:  in the gun tests article on the Star Model B, the ammo used in the tests was the Winchester 115 gn BEB, the PMC 124 gn FMJ and the Speer 115 gn Gold Dot.  They did not relate any failures to extract, and if all your cases, including the ones that FTE all looked normal, then there is something not quite right.  

Have you tried anything in the slightly hotter handload category that might send that slide back properly and pull those fired cases right outta that chamber?  Also, how far back does your pistol throw the empties?  There was a note in the write-up that said "it performed well with the right ammo" but didn't explain that statement.  Your particular piece may prefer a snappier load.....  HTH.  Mikey.

[1911WB]

Mikey- I think u might have the answer or at least part of it. The factory loads that I'm using don't appear to be hot. The empties that are ejected don't go very far. Also, I understand that Wolff makes recoil springs for the Super B, and I'm going to get one. With the hotter ammo and a new recoil spring, I'm hoping the problem goes away. I'll let u know, and thanks again for your help.  

[wiley]

are a good value. Assuming they are offered for the Star, you should find an extracror spring. It fits under the extractor at it's rearmost location. The extractor is held in the slide by a pin that can be driven out. You can also polish the sides of the extractor with a hard stone to improve function.

[Mikey]

I'm such a dummy.  I should have asked you more details about your failures to eject.  

Specifically, I should have asked if your extractor doesn't pull the case all the way out of the chamber and slips out of the extraction groove on the case so that the slide then comes back forward with the extractor coming up against the case head, OR if the slide just stops part way back with the extractor still in the extraction groove of the case but the slide hasn't gone all the way back.  

Also, I should have sked if there are any markings on the next case in the magazine that might indicate a magazine spring so still that it forces the next cartridge so hard against the bottom of the slide that it creates so much resistance as to fail to allow the slide to fully cycle.  

So, does the extractor slip off the case, or does the slide fail to cycle all the way to the rear allowing the case to be pulled from the chamber and ejected.  Also, please look at the cartridges next in cue, so to speak, when you do have a fte and see if they have any telltale markings.  

Just a couple of late night thoughts.  Mikey.

[1911WB]

Mikey- thanks for the late night thoughts. It seems to be where the case is not pulled completely out of the chamber (slips off the extractor hook). I'm not sure about the next case in such situations, but I'll check it out. I also wonder if Wolff has mag springs for the Super B; if so, I'll get some when I get the recoil spring (s). Thanks again.

[Mikey]

OK Friend, I think we may have a solution.  You provided that your extractor slips off the/out of the extraction groove on the case when it fails to extract.  If so, the slide should go full back, strip another cartridge from the magazine and jam it against the back of the fired shell casing or jam up underneath it.

If this is what happens, you may (most likely or probably) need a new extractor, and I would go for a new extractor spring to accompany that.  Wolff Springs should carry what you need, and I would find a new extractor, probably from Gun Parts Corp or another parts place like that.  I think a new extractor (with a good gripping edge) and a new spring should fix those FTE problems.  HTH.  Mikey.

[1911WB]

Mikey- let me bore you with more info on my problem. I went out this morning with some reloads- 115 FMJ with 5 grns Bullseye, CCI SP primer. Had the same problem with FTE's. I did learn one thing- in any of the 3 mags I used if I only loaded 3 rounds, no problem. Anymore than 3, I experienced FTE's (fired case still in or partially out of the chamber) after firing the first or second rounds. Does this sound like a weak mag spring problem to you?  :roll:

[Mikey]

1911WB - Oh Boy.  It does not not so much sound like a weak magazine spring as possibly a dirty magazine inside or one that has some minor damage to it, such as in or by one of the holes in the side of the magazine body.  Sometimes, there can be a burr or a bit of an indent that interferes just enough with the follower or one of the shells, so that as the slide retracts to extract/eject a fired case, the 4th round is literally jammed or fixed in place so that the fired case is interrupted in the extraction and the extractor slips out of the groove and a jam occurs.  The spring and follower should allow the slide to depress the following round sufficiently so that the extraced case clears the loaded round beneath it and is ejected, and then pushes up the following round for chambering.

I'm certain you have cleaned the insides of those magazines - keeping in mind that they have probably been stored in cosmoline for a while, then dumped wholesale into boxes or bins and banged around a bunch - that would be enough to put a sufficiently small but pain in the butt dent in the mag that would affect proper feeding - and as a result, proper extraction.

What happens when you load 4 or more rounds into any of those magazines - do you feel any resistance - does it become tougher to load 4 or more??  Have you stripped the mags?  The springs, if not under compression for 40 years or so should be fine - I think it might be in the magazine body itself.  When you dismantle the magazines, if you can't fit your finger down to feel the inside, run some q-tips around the holes in the magazine body and see if they catch on any burrs - if so, there may be your problem and I don't think it would be uncommon to have the same problem with all the magazines.  Also, check the followers for burrs or rough edges, anything that could cause a hangup in a tight magazine body.  

Do your magazines drop right out of the bottom when you hit the mag release button?  If so, they aren't spoda - a recent Gun Tests article indicated they would release just so far and then have to be pulled.  It was common practice years back to wang the mag once or twice with a ballpeen hammer right on those holes near the magazine retaining notch (like at the 4th round level) to get it to drop free from the.

Check out your mags.  You have identified that it is not an ammo problem, or an extractor/ejector problem.  All that's left is the magazines.  Let's work on those this weekend and see what we come up with.  Mikey.

[1911WB]

Thanks, Mikey, for your usual thoughtful reply. I did take the mags apart and clean them, but I didn't think about possible burrs. I'll check it out!  :-)