My 4th Mosin....

[NRAJOE]

1938 Tula 91/59 all matching numbers not forced. Along with this I have a 91/30...M38...M44 Laminate. Next will be a Hex 91/30 and then a Finn M39.  

[1911crazy]

1938 Tula 91/59 all matching numbers not forced. Along with this I have a 91/30...M38...M44 Laminate. Next will be a Hex 91/30 and then a Finn M39.  

Hey Joe where ya going with that gun in your hand?? Kidding
I have to check where my M91/59 is in the safe to see if its still there it looks the same as mine.  Who did you get it from AIM??  Thats where I got mine from.  A little while ago there were no M38's or M59's to be found. And all of a sudden they appeared again for sale but who knows how long the supply of them will last.  If anybody wants one now is the time to get one.  Congrats on your purchase NRAJOE you have a purdy one!!  
                                                                      BigBill

The only way I can tell the difference between an M38 and M91/59 is the M91/59 has the full length 91/30 rear site and the M38 has a shorter rear site other wise both rifles look the same to me without having them side by side.  While the M44 has the side folding bayonet.

With M39's you may want to buy a few they were rare for a while then appeared again too.  I managed to get one years ago but when SOG had them they were $89 about a year and a half ago so i grabbed two more and when I went to buy another one the price shot to $149 so i passed on it.  But these were in excellent condition ++ too.  My first one is a M39 VKT with an orginal red colored stock.  The finns sure did a great job in changing over captured 91/30's and building them into M39's.  There is some history behind the M39's too in the story of "The Rifles of the White Death"  were 32 finnish soldiers held off 4,000 russians and the russians retreated with only 4 or 5 finns left alive.  And when Hitler heard of this he thought the russians would be a push over so he attacked russia right away well you know the rest of the story its history for sure.  But the Finn's changed to the heavier barrels, the sights and the heavier stocks with their focus on accuracy and I have to say they do shoot well. I read somewhere that some of these finn's were making 600meter shots with open site M39's!!!!

[NRAJOE]

Yeah, it did come from AIM, but I bought it off a guy I know on ak-47.net. The only way I can tell the difference is by looking at the receiver for that 91/59 stamp. I wan a Finn bad, biut I think I'll finish up my Russians first.

 

[1911crazy]

NRAJOE;  Don't forget there are "four" different makers Finnish M39's you got to collect/have all "4"!!!!   They are;  the "VKT",  the SAKO, the "B" and the "SKY".   I'm sure once you get one the others will follow.  BigBill

I have one M39 more to go!!!  But my problem is I get side tracked to what ever different comes along I just don't stick to a plan its hard to when something different that you don't normally see comes by cheap too. But like I said in the past posts we do go full circle and comeback to where we left off again sooner or later. Like right now you have me thinking about my missing M39??

[Big Blue]

Joe,
  Great lookin' rifle! I was able to get a great M38 laminate a little more than a month ago, and a 91/30 hex last week. The M38 was in unissued condition, but the 91/30 wasn't as nice although it was rated excellent from Century. Is your new 91/59 a cut down 91/30? I have heard of them, but haven't seen one for sale at any gun shows yet.
Don

[1911crazy]

Looking at the length of the rear site it is a cut down M91/30.        BigBill

Two years ago I found a Mosin sporter that was half done in a local gun shop and I bought it I thought it was a M44 but later found out its a M59.  I was going to make my own sporter out of a brand new unissued Russian laminated M44 I just never got to it for many years it just sat in the safe.  When I found out what I had I'm sure glad I never touched it. I picked this other mosin to finish the sporterization.

[Big Blue]

I just got back from doing a little MN research. The 91/59 was a 91/30 that was cut down and updated in 1959, and should have both the original manufacture date and the 1959 date stamps on the receiver. They were not issued with bayonets. I'll see if theres anything else available on them.
Don

[Big Blue]

I found some more info on the 91/59. It seems that the history of these rifles is pretty murky. They were originally sold in this country as rare Bulgarian imports, but this isn't thought to have been true, because of their lack of Bulgarian cartouches and the fact that so many more were later imported to the US. There are some with original manufacturing marks from Finlands Tikka plant, but most have Soviet markings, or have had there original markings ground off( scrubbed, in an effort to remove early model 1891s mention of Tzarist Russia) and replaced with new 91/59 markings. Because of there close likeness to the M38s, many reports regarding their origin have been discounted as mistaken identity. There have even been some brought back as war finds from Vietnam, giving reason to believe they originated in the USSR rather than an Eastern European country. While many have cut down 91/30 stocks, they are also seen bearing M38, and M44 stocks. A very interesting, yet limited amount of history. Now you have me wanting one!
Don

[His lordship.]

I have owned 3 MN's to date, a 1937 Ischevsk, bad extractor, traded it off years ago when the only ammo was NORMA brand and expensive, about 1979.  An Ischevsk Model 44 (1946 vintage) rebuild, sold it, as I thought the machining on the bolt and receiver interior were rough.  And recently I bought a 1942 Ischevsk model 91/30, a keeper.

The prices and selection of these guns seems like an opportunity for a second rifle as I might regret not moving on this if the prices go way up, most likely a carbine, or maybe a Finn gun.  Has anyone liked the Chinese clones of the Model 44?  Most of the Chinese I have seen over the years at gun shows look beat up.  The Finn guns are tempting, but I don't want to pay $200.00 for a wornout rifle with most of the bluing gone, when I can get a Soviet rebuild for $90.00 on sale at a local retailor, or $130.00 through my favorite gun show dealer, and do "hand select".

If I go carbine, should I try the Romanian or Hungarian clones, or the Model 44 versus's the Model 38 Soviet?  I have heard that the Model 38 is less accurate than the Model 44, I wonder why?  You collectors who have the multiple rifles, which one is your first favorite, and then your second favorite?

Thanks.

[1911crazy]

Chris D;    On some of these russian refurbs it states while these guns have been refurbished the bores haven't so its also a crap shoot on these too if we get a good one or a wornout one.  I've stayed away from them so far I went for the higher priced M91/59's and M38's since I'm only planning on buying one of each of these I figured I would spend a little more for a better one.   The finnish M39's are the same way if we mailorder we can always send it back for another one if we don't like the one we recieve.  I have seen a few nice M39's at gun shows lately too priced between $100 and $149 thats not a bad price.  I would of bought one but i already picked up a russian hex 91/30 that day.  There were some M39's just imported here and someone bought up the whole boat load of them.  I think their waiting for the prices to go up then the'll unload them to make big bucks on them.  I need one more M39 to finish my collection of them I may make it or I may not it depends on how much and what condition its in.  This maybe the last chance we have to get one they were gone for quite sometime before.       BigBill

I can remember the last 70's/early 80's I bought my first M39 finn mosin and a box of norma ammo it was $28bx of 20.   Then i caught the last case of chinese 7.62x54 ammo and a brand new unissued russian M44 on the same day.  Both mosins sat in the back of the safe for many years because of ammo availability.  I just took them out two years ago to look at.  I didn't even remember what they were all I remembered was they shot 7.62x54.  I thought the M44 was a chinese one but now I realized the ammo was chinese.   The m44 is new and the reciever number matches the barrel date so it was assembledat the same time new not a refurb.

As we get into all these military surplus guns we find out all these model numbers relate to the year they were first made.  Like "91/30" is actually designed in 1891 but it was reworked in the 30's thus 91/30.  The "38" is actually 1938.  The 91/59 is "1891" and reworked in 1959 the barrels were cut.  Its not only the mosins its the swede mausers too the 96 is actually 1896 and the 38 is 1938 to.  Now the masuer 98 is 1898 too.   Its funny how the model number refers to the year it was designed and made.  And look at the '93 and '95 7mm mausers too thats 1893 and 1895.  Its cool???  Lets see what model number are we going to call our new gun?? Lets use the year we designed in for the model number.  These old guys sure weren't dumb I think its a neat idea they came up with.

[Big Blue]

Chris D,
  To the best of my knowledge, the only difference between the M38 and M44, other than year of the design, was the inclusion on the M44 of the folding bayonet. When I look these guns over, I first look to see if the numbers all match, then pull the bolt out to look at the rifling. They  seem to be plentiful right now, so the prices are pretty reasonable, as is your ability to pick and choose. The ammo is the same way, my last purchase was at $2.00 a box.
Don

[1911crazy]

It looks like AIM is all out of M59's I just went there to look at the $109 M59's and their all gone.  Century Arms only has the M38's in both regular and laminated stocks.  I guess the supply of M59's is drying up again maybe till the next shippment.                                            BigBill

[His lordship.]

Yeh, I know what you mean on the barrel condition.  When I bought my recently purchased 91/30 I thought the barrel was new, no, it is in excellent condition, but not new.  Also, the bottom serial number on the magazine cover was lined out, and a new one matching the bolt put in.  My last Model 44 was rebuilt with a new barrel, and all parts were matching.  It shot well, but some of the guys at the range complained about the muzzle blast, it really did have a huge orange flame come out the front muzzle, recoil was ok, though.

I thought their reaction was odd, considering the number of super magnum rifles that are shot there where you can feel the muzzle blast shock on your face and chest stations away, 7 MM mag. 375 H&H, 338 mag. etc.

Anyways, I might regret not getting a second MN, and will do the research and try for fit and feel at a future gun show, but a carbine for sure...most likely a Model 44 as it is different looking in appearance, and I know they shoot well, will look at the Finn guns again too.  This will also entice me to start hand loading for it, as the surplus stuff may get more and more difficult to find, also, the sticking chamber problems with the lacquered steel cased ammo is annoying.

[Big Blue]

Chris D,
  I've heard from others that these rifles have a heck of a muzzle flash, but shooting it, I've never noticed it. Were you able to see the flash when you were shooting it?
Don

[1911crazy]

Chris D.  Have you tried the cheap Russian Barnaul soft point hunting ammo.  I shot it in my SVT-40 Tokarev with no ejection problems so it may be ok in bolt actions also.  I'm waiting to make another trip to the local range soon as the weather stabilizes here its cold again so I'm staying inside I haven't been sick all winter.  I want to benchrest some of my bolt action rifles mainly the mosins.  But I'm dying to shoot my project mauser its ready to go.  I want to see what it can do with the new barrel.  The scope was 3 clicks off when I bore sighted it thats real close on the scope mounting.                                                               BigBill

[His lordship.]

Bigbill...I have not tried the Barnaul yet.  Is it the same as Brown Bear, I really like the Brown bear in several of my guns, accurate stuff.

Bigblue...the thing about muzzle flash, is it is really more noticable under darker conditions.  Our rifle range station is under a roof next to a steep hill with trees, when it is overcast you can really see the muzzle blast from the Model 44, and my Saiga Russian in 7.62 X 39 too.  I watched a guy shoot a pistol (short rifle, T. Contender, I think?) in 308 Winchester, and the flash lit up the whole area so well you could read by it, must be all that powder burning outside the barrel.  I try to watch the other guys when their guns go off to observe the muzzle flash, most rifles are pretty mute about it.

[1911crazy]

Bigbill...I have not tried the Barnaul yet.  Is it the same as Brown Bear, I really like the Brown bear in several of my guns, accurate stuff.

Bigblue...the thing about muzzle flash, is it is really more noticable under darker conditions.  Our rifle range station is under a roof next to a steep hill with trees, when it is overcast you can really see the muzzle blast from the Model 44, and my Saiga Russian in 7.62 X 39 too.  I watched a guy shoot a pistol (short rifle, T. Contender, I think?) in 308 Winchester, and the flash lit up the whole area so well you could read by it, must be all that powder burning outside the barrel.  I try to watch the other guys when their guns go off to observe the muzzle flash, most rifles are pretty mute about it.

Guys you want to see handguns at night the 44mag and 357mag have 8"  flames out of both sides of the cylinder and 12"+ flames out of the barrel using reloaded max magnum rounds.                            BigBill

[Big Blue]

Guys you want to see handguns at night the 44mag and 357mag have 8"  flames out of both sides of the cylinder and 12"+ flames out of the barrel using reloaded max magnum rounds.                            BigBill[/quote]
BigBill,
  My Taurus in .45 Colt with 2" ported barrel gives a pretty good show.
Don