Author Topic: Lyman vs. Austin & Halleck Flintlock (Read 2186 times)

tundragriz · « **on:** March 22, 2004, 04:32:59 AM »

Gonna buy another flintlock for a New Mexico Mulie hunt, narrowed it down to either the Lyman Great Plains Hunter, 32", 1:32 twist or the Austin & Halleck Mountain Rifle, 32", 1:28 twist.

I like the twist of the A&H but I like the ready made peep sight on the Lyman.

Anyone have input on the quality of the two?
The 1:32 versus the 1:28 twist?
Has anyone put a peep on an A&H?

Regards

xnmr53 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2004, 06:44:21 AM »

I've never owned either, nor do I know of anyone who has.

Put this on the modern side and you'll probably get more responses.

Or perhaps next time don't mention the peep sights. :wink: :eek:

rollingb · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2004, 07:39:23 AM »

The MODERN muzzleloader site will also have more "info" in regards to the "fast-twist" bores you mentioned, which require un-traditional jacketed bullets and plastic sabots in order to shoot well.

Tell'em when ya git ther,... thet we were "NICE" to ya!!
They enjoy accuse'n us of be'n "mean spirited" simplely 'cause we lack "knowledge and interest" in modern-bullets and fast-twist muzzleloader-barrels!!

HWooldridge · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2004, 08:59:32 AM »

The fast twist barrels require a heavy bullet and typically will not shoot a ball. I had a .50 Lyman with the 1-32 twist that would only shoot accurately with charges of 70 gr or more of FFFg and a 500 gr bullet. The rifle was light enough that this load was bruising to shoot. I sold it and bought a 45 Tennessee style rifle with 1-66 twist so I could comfortably shoot round balls.

RCL · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:45:55 AM »

TGriz, my own preference would be for the Lyman flinter, in .54 caliber. With that twist I would shoot Hornady's Great Plains Bullet over a heavy charge (probably 80-110 grains, but go according to the factory manual) of 2F Goex.

KING · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2004, 03:40:29 PM »

buffalo Bullets make a good lead slug for that caliber. Like the gentleman said...use around 90 grns of a good black powder and see where it is shooting and then take it from there. I use both 2f and 3f in my fast twist caplocks and each kinda prefer one or the other. At any rate....you will get plenty of punch on the front of that bullet............stay safe..King

lonewolf5347 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2004, 04:38:54 PM »

I have a lyman GPR 50 CAL. PERCUSION 1 in 32 twist and what I found so far it loves 3 f goex. I have gotten excellent group with a 320 grain REAL conical bullet @ wad and 80 grain of goex,I also tryed the hornady SST 300 gain sabot with the goex and all 3 shots clover leaf at the 50 yard target.

crow_feather · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2004, 03:18:37 AM »

I am not trying to be mean or anything, but it seems that a flinter shootin a slug is like driving a BMW down a game trail. Wouldn't a 1:48 twist do well enough so that you might have options?

C F

This spilcheker don't know how ta spill "shootin"

tundragriz · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2004, 06:07:01 AM »

No offense taken.

Just a matter of personal preference. I love my flintlock, would not consider using anything else, been hunting with it for 24 years, may have taken that many deer with it, and a flintlock is required by law for our primitive season. Taken more deer with this gun than any other.

I like the downrange energy advantage of a heavy bullet at distances over 100 yards. With my short Renegade, 1:48, distances of 100-125 are no problem but I think this is about the limit.

I am taking a rather expensive Mulie hunt in New Mexico and want all the ballistic advantage I can muster but I still want to use a flintlock, like I said earlier, doubt this will ever change, just can't beat the fun of using one. The outfitter is top notch and routinely takes B&C deer. He never had anyone use a flintlock, mainly in-lines, and an occasional cap. His passion is hunting deer with a muzzleloader and he personally wants to be involved in my hunt because it is with a flintlock. During the muzzleloading season the mulies are in the open areas and shots can be long.

So I am looking for a longer barrel, old (as in getting older every day) eye problems also prompt this, since I like the maxi types, might as well get the fastest twist possible, already have a 1:48. The peep/scope/red dot is a neccessity because I can't focus anymore on regular sights. I have an Ashley Ghost ring on my 450 Guide Gun and it still works pretty good for me. Eventually, I might have to go to a small scope. Such is life.

RCL · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2004, 01:24:14 PM »

TGriz, Lyman makes a peep that fits right on their Great Plains guns.
You from Pa?

tundragriz · « **Reply #10 on:** March 27, 2004, 01:01:51 AM »

Hi RCL,
Yes I am from NE Pa, work in Binghamton.

Thanks about the Lyman peep sight. In my original post you will see that was the main reason for considering the Lyman.

Literally spent all day and night yesterday driving around the eastern half of the state looking at muzzleloaders. Decided on the Austin and Halleck. Everyone I spoke to said they were just absolutely exceptional in quality and detail, pretty much the best non-custom flintlock available, of course the price is near custom.

I'm gonna get the Flintlock Mountain Rifle, 32", 1:28 twist, select grade stock, what beautiful wood!!! No one had this in stock and the earliest delivery from A&H is June. They don't produce a lot and they are hard to find. In my internet search I found where people were posting searches for them, new or used.

Best price is 650, retail is 769, most were around 700. I am waiting to hear back from one that my be competitive with the 650. I'll have a smith drill and tap for the Lyman peep.

http://www.austinhalleck.com/images/mtnfh.jpg

Regards,
Ed

simonkenton · « **Reply #11 on:** March 27, 2004, 04:37:24 AM »

A&H takes the cake when it comes to putting beautiful wood on a rifle.

lonewolf5347 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 27, 2004, 05:27:14 AM »

check out D@ R sport center on prices
www.dnrsports.com

filmokentucky · « **Reply #13 on:** March 27, 2004, 10:30:49 AM »

Does anyone actually know when peep sghts first appeared? The earliest mention I can find is in Frederick Wilkinson's book "Antique Firearms" on page 8. Figure six shows a matchlock of 1598 vintage with a peep sight. Seems like they've been around for awhile.

Naphtali · « **Reply #14 on:** April 07, 2004, 06:17:15 AM »

My wife took delivery on her Lyman GPR .50-caliber flintlock about 2-1/2 weeks ago. It is on its way to Lyman for repair/replacement. The facts are:

1. Hammer has no arrester to stop its forward slam on its lock plate.

2. Lock plate is warped -- that is, the pan stands away from the touch hole about 1/16-inch.

3. Double set trigger cannot be adjusted. Over travel screw adjusts nothing; it's too short. Trigger assembly is budget-priced, and I'm being tactful.

4. Butt plate screw hole misaligned. Screw head tears up- clothing.
*******
The unfortunate thing about the situation is that these problems are not obvious until you do make-ready. There were several other niggardly problems, but these are expected on a rifle in this price range.

I have a friend who made a similar (right-handed) GPR from a kit. His is beautiful and works -- well, like it's supposed to. B U T . . .

He replaced Lyman's lock with L & R's replacement flintlock. It strongly resembles my L & R "Late English" lock. And quality of his workmanship is superior to that available on a $400-500 muzzleloader.

Ramrod · « **Reply #15 on:** April 07, 2004, 12:28:48 PM »

tundragriz, I don't know poop about that fast a twist except maybe in a pistol, but I got to say them Austin & Hallecks are some damn fine looking rifles and a much better way to put your money to work than a Lyman. Good luck on you hunt.

lonewolf5347 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 07, 2004, 01:17:58 PM »

I hope to get to dixon this year for the fair in july,I would like to see and handle the mountain rifle in 50 cal. flinter before I order one.

tundragriz · « **Reply #17 on:** April 07, 2004, 04:19:30 PM »

LW,

Doubt you will find one there. I was at Dixon's a few weeks ago and got nothing but what I consider nonsense about A&H. Seemed like he had a grudge of some sort against them. In one sentence he said he would never sell them because he couldn't stand behind the product, something about not understanding them like other brands, and then in another sentence he said they have one of the best locks and triggers, same as used on some other custom gun, and he said they have very good wood. If they have one of the best locks/triggers, others have said they have the best barrels, and the wood is great, what else is there in a flintlock.

I walked away confused about his ranting but his arrogant tone was unmistakable. I won't return, a customer does not deserve that kind of treatment over a simple question. I was just asking if he carried the Austin and Halleck Mountain rifle? My girlfriend stood there in disbelief at the lecture and afterwards commented "what was that all about!".

Maybe I had a unique experience but I am willing to spend my money elsewhere. If you go, try the same question and let me know the response.

Seemed like he was also bitter about Cabela's being so close as he made a derogatory remark about their blackpowder products. I just got turned off hearing him run down the competition and embarassing me as a customer, very unprofessional. He pointed out his years of experience and the fact he has the biggest muzzleloading shop in the country.

I can't know his motivation but my guess is he is feeling threatened by Cabelas and also from any newcomers into the blackpowder market like A&H, ones that he doesn't have a rapport with.

Well now I ranted enough and I feel better about it too.

And

P.S. Thanks Ramrod!

lonewolf5347 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 07, 2004, 04:47:34 PM »

tundragriz before you purchase the rifle did you get a chance to handle it or did you just ordered it:do you know of any dealer that carry the rifle? I would like see the quailty and workmanship in the rifle.
I am thinking in selling my GPR for the main reason being the overall weight other wise I can't really see any major flawes in the gun,shoot excellent.I have read the A@H weighs about 7 1/2 pounds :
The review you gave Dixion may just save me a trip,the ride is about 3 hours from were I live,not around the corner.

tundragriz · « **Reply #19 on:** April 07, 2004, 05:07:17 PM »

LW,

No I have not touched any. I have spent a lot of time searching the web, visiting stores, making phone calls, and no one has any in stock, anywhere. Best price I found was D&R, $650. Several weeks ago they quoted me 635, when I went in to place the order they called A&H and found out they would not be available in the select grade until June. They asked about price and there will be a $25 price increase from last year. He said we could split the increase at $650. Most everywhere else was 700+ without the increase.

Everyone that has handled them, except from my above post, thought they were cream of the crop. It may be a bit of a risk but I'm going to take it. 700 with tax is a lot for a ML but the enjoyment of using it is even better than using a $1000 centerfire. I'm at a stage in life where I can splurge a little on a gun that looks as good as it shoots, I hope!

l.cutler · « **Reply #20 on:** April 07, 2004, 11:51:38 PM »

Tundragriz. just had to say howdy, never expected to see a fellow Susquehanna countyon around here! good luck on your hunt!

lonewolf5347 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 08, 2004, 10:30:23 AM »

tundragriz: who makes the barrels @ locks for the mountan rifle?

tundragriz · « **Reply #22 on:** April 08, 2004, 03:45:07 PM »

Cutler,
Howdy, from the Lawton area, how bout you?

LW
Been talking directly with A&H. They have rifles available that can be shipped directly to dealers. Assume the problem may have been with distributor stock. I'm going to have one shipped to a local dealer. Here is their resonse to your question and a link on their site:

"We have our Spanish barrel maker make our exclusive extruded barrels and our locks are made to our specs with some innovations taken from L&R and Siler."

http://www.austinhalleck.com/ourbarrels.html

l.cutler · « **Reply #23 on:** April 08, 2004, 11:40:43 PM »

Tundra, Uniondale, let us know how the hunt goes!

chickenlittle · « **Reply #24 on:** April 11, 2004, 04:19:09 PM »

You should try the Gander Mtn store down at Dickson City. They had A&H flintlocks the last time I was in there. They certainly wouldn't be cheaper than D&R but you could at least see one. Seemed fine to me but a bit pricey.

The previous post about a bad Lyman was the first bad comment on those guns i've seen since i got into ML.