Author Topic: Just bought a new Pietta .44 (Read 1954 times)

simonkenton · « **on:** February 05, 2003, 09:22:35 AM »

I needed a cap and ball revolver. In one hour yesterday on this forum I got a great education. My two main questions were: Given that the Colt is obviously weaker than the Remington, does it still make sense to buy the Colt, if you prefer the look and feel of the Colt? Given that the Uberti costs more, does it make sense to buy the Pietta?
The answer I got here is yes, to both. I got the idea that you don't want to mess with mail order with these, but put the gun in your hands and see how tight it is, how well it aligns. Well, there is a Bass Pro Shop that sells Traditions. I went over there, they had one .44 Colt left. It is a beauty, very tight. $149. The little mom and pop gun store on the other side of town has a Pietta Navy .36 for $225. They would have to order the .44. So you pay too much, in advance, and then if the one you get shipped isn't timed right, you got a bad deal. I like the mom and pop gun stores, but I don't like them that much. Plus, you can return a gun to Bass Pro Shop, no questions asked.

This .44 is real beauty. Thanks for all the great info, Graybeard Forum.

HWooldridge · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2003, 09:44:10 AM »

Just personal experience but the Colt balances and points better (plus it looks cool with the open top). The Remington is more robust and is better for deliberate aiming but does not feel as good in my hand. The only thing I would advise against is buying a brass frame - other than that, go with your gut feel.

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #2 on:** February 06, 2003, 01:30:21 PM »

Congrats on your purchase! While the Remington style pistols were better machines, the Colt's style pistols were more popular overall. Some historians would have you believe it was because Colt was a master salesman and endeared himself politically with lavishly appointed guns as gifts. Certainly there was a lot of that. But I think HWooldrige touched on my own personal theory. The Colts were natural "pointers" and made hitting at combat distances more certain for those who were "unschooled" in handgunnery! One feature that reenforces this feeling is the line of sight. With the open top design, the line of sight is most closely alligned with the bore vertically. The proverbial "point your finger" phrase works with the Colt's style, while the Remington style requires the use of sights to achieve best accuracy. Most people hip shoot Remingtons low.

Dan C

Gatofeo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2003, 03:56:02 PM »

No doubt about it.
The Colt cap and ball revolvers are better-balanced than their Remington counterparts.
This applies to the Colt 1849, 1851, 1860 and 1861. The Walker and Dragoons are more cumbersome, of course.
Years ago I read, and have heard since, that many quickdraw artists consider the Colt 1851 Navy to be the finest-balanced revolver ever made. The reason it's not used as much as the Colt Peacemaker is because of the time required to reload it.
With modern reproductions of the 1851 Navy cartridge conversions, this may no longer be a factor.
Simonkenton, I was pleased to see that my post in another folder apparently induced you to purchase a Traditions 1860 Colt .44.
I was amazed at the quality of this Pietta-made gun. Usually, Piettas have a utilitarian finish and fit. Not this beauty! I don't think it could be improved upon.
So far, my most accurate load has been:
30 gr. Goex FFFG
Wonder Wad, soaked in tallow/beeswax/paraffin lubricant mixture. In my experience, the Wonder Wads simply don't have enough lubricant to keep fouling down. This is why I soak them in more lubricant.
Corn meal on top of wad, flush with cylinder.
.457 inch ball
CCI No. 11 cap

I pour in the powder, push in a greased wad, seat the wad with the rammer, add corn meal on top of wad, seat the ball with the rammer, then cap the cylinder when all chambers are loaded.
At 25 yards, I'll usually have three or four balls go into a 1.5 inch circle, with the remainder opening the group to 2.5 or 3 inches. That's as good as many modern pistols. In fact, I'd bet that this is better than most 9mm handguns out there.
You're going to love that 1860 Colt!

simonkenton · « **Reply #4 on:** February 07, 2003, 02:10:12 AM »

Gatofeo- Yes you influenced me to get the Pietta. I mean, you see the Uberti for a bunch more money, you figure it is a lot better.
I had gone to this same Bass Pro Shop a couple years ago and bought a Colt .36. I got home with the gun and took it from the box. I was appalled at the fit and finish. I didn't notice who the manufacturer was, but I returned it to the store and got my money back the next day. This .44 is in a completely different league. Yesterday I asked the clerk, "Two and three years ago were your pistols made by Pietta?" He assured me that they were. Go figure.
Now what the hell is the corn meal deal? Here in Atlanta we cook that with butter, we call it grits.
I have heard of a guy who loads a shotgun with cream of wheat. Now, what purpose does the corn meal serve? You put corn meal in to the top of the cylinder, on top of the wad? Will the ball compress it, or squeeze it out?
I got the .457 balls following your advice. I am getting geared up. I already have some Old Zip patch lube, which is mutton tallow and beeswax. I will melt a little paraffin in with that and give it a try. I like this technique because guys on other forums are talking about packing the front of each cylinder with Crisco, to keep fouling down. What a mess that must be!
The fit and finish of this .44 is very good. It is just a beautiful gun. The wedge was unbelievably tight. Also, the wood was a bit large where it fit to the metal in a few places. I removed the wood and sanded it down, and am now refinishing it with glossy Tung oil. I am going to lap the bore with JB paste and go to the range next week.

The Shrink · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2003, 11:22:11 AM »

Simon

Do NOT add parafin to your lube! It is a petroleum product. It will put a tar-like substance in your barrel. Use your lube as it is, if it is too soft, and shouldn't be, add more beeswax or some anhydrous lanolin.

You are right, Chisco will be a mess, and it will melt out of the other chambers at the first shot. I don't use it, and with a tight fitting wad under the ball I have never had a chain fire in any of my current pistols. I did have a chain fire years ago out of an old, brass frame 1851 repro that was in poor condition, without crisco in the chambers, and before I knew about wads (I was only 16, after all!).

Corn meal or other substances are used to fill the chamber when light loads are used, to minimize ball jump. It is unnecessary for what you are doing, breaking in a new pistol. Just fill the chamber with powder so that you can seat the ball fully in the chamber and shoot. You may not get good accuracy at first, and many find that lighter loads provide the best accuracy, but don't worry about this now. Just have fun making smoke and breaking it in. The barrel probably needs twenty to thirty shots before it is broken in, anyway.

JS44 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2003, 12:45:10 PM »

I bought a Pietta 1858 Remington a little over a year ago. It's my first black powder pistol and it has exceeded my expectations. A lot more accurate than what I expected. The things I like most are the topstrap and the way the cylinder can be removed quick and easy. I use Hornady .454 balls, FFFg, Remington #10 caps, and Crisco to seal the chambers. It's supposed to take 40 grains but I've found that that's a grain or two too much because I can't get the ball seated with that much powder. What I'm using it about 38 grains. It could be that my powder measure is off a grain or two also.
JS

Gatofeo · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2003, 07:47:20 AM »

The Shrink, I respectfully disagree.
I also learned many years ago to NEVER use any petroleum products with black powder, lest the two create a hard, tarry fouling that stubbornly resisted cleaning and affected accuracy.
But the canning paraffin I use, while is decidedly a petroleum product, does not have this propensity.
More than a year ago in one website (this or another, I can't remember) I posted the recipe for a paraffin, mutton tallow and beeswax bullet lubricant, which dates to the 19th century.
It caused quite a row, since many like yourself pointed out that paraffin was a petroleum product.
Along came a chemist, who explained that paraffin either lacks or contains the hydrocarbons that somehow make it significantly different from petroleum greases and oils.
I can't recall the explanation, it was technical (and I have trouble figuring out how to open a can of sardines) but his assertion was that paraffin did NOT create the hard, tarry fouling of which we are all familiar.
And my own experience confirms it.
The old-time recipe is:
1 part paraffin (I use canning paraffin. Dunno how candles might work)
1 part tallow (I use mutton tallow, sold by Dixie Gun Works)
1/2 part beeswax
All measurements are by weight. I use a kitchen scale to measure 200/200/100 grams of ingredients, which nearly fills a quart Mason jar.
With the weighed ingredients in the jar, I place the jar into three or four inches of boiling water for a double-boiler effect (the safest way to melt waxes and greases).
When all ingredients are thoroughly melted, stir together with a clean stick or a disposable chopstick. Allow to harden at room temperature. Hastening hardening by placing in the refrigerator may cause the ingredients to separate.
I've used the above recipe for about three years and have lubricated felt wads, lead bullets and rifle patches with it. It has worked extremely well and never caused the hard, tarry fouling that is the bane of shooters who use petroleum products with black powder.
I'm no chemist. I can't explain it technically but I do know that --- contrary to all claims --- the paraffin in this lubricant is beneficial.
I believe it is particularly beneficial when felt wads are soaked in the melted lubricant. After the wads harden at room temperature, they're slightly stiffer than the commercial wads.
This stiffness, I believe, has a scraping effect on fouling. Recovered wads show a negative impression of the rifling around their periphery.
But the real acid-test is a peek down the bore. I can shoot all day, never swab the revolver bore, and it looks almost as though I've been shooting smokeless powder through it!
I've shown the bore to other shooters at the range and they've been amazed.
I hope you understand I'm not trying to flame you. I used to think as you did, considering ANY petroleum product as pure poison when mixed with black powder.
Now I know that there is at least one exception (paraffin). I wonder if there are others out there?

The Shrink · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2003, 10:46:26 AM »

Gatofeo

Well, we all have something to learn, myself included. I'll put this one in my reference file. Sounds like this lube may have some of the properties the westerners are looking for in a high temperature lube.

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2003, 11:13:33 AM »

Gatofeo, I think you just explained something I had been wondering about. Toilet Rings, a long time ago they were I believe pure bee's wax. Now there are three different types that I know of. The cheap one, non fortified, non reenforced is I believe parafin and something, maybe mineral oil. I've been using 50-50 toilet ring and crisco for the last two years and have never had a fouling problem but thought that I should, considering I was using at least one, if not two petroleum products.
Thanks, now I can sleep better at night not having to worry about when it was going to quit working!

simonkenton · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2003, 12:08:09 PM »

Gatofeo- I got my mutton tallow/beeswax blend, Old Zip patch grease from Dixie, which I have had for a while. I got some GulfWax paraffin, I am going to melt some in with some of the OldZip, and lube up the wads.
If you go over to the forums at SASSNET.COM there is a discussion of Pietta quality. Val Forgett 3rd made a post, he says he went over to the Pietta factory 2 months ago and the boys have gotten in new machinery lately, and have made a new committment to quality. Well, you shouldn't have to get recommitted to quality, no matter what you are doing. Better late than never. I like my new Pietta, now I need another.