38 cal for Kirst Conversation

[Archie]

What cartrige is the Kirst conversation for.  It says 38 colt. Is that 38 special cowboy loads or is it a different cartrige.  Is there published loading data for smokless powder.  Does anyone have a load for round balls for the 38 colt.   In the 1851 with the Kirst Conversation where does the revolver shoot with round ball; 38 hollow base bullets?? Does it shoot high or low??

Thanks

[Flint]

The cylinder is chambered in 38Long Colt, but it is a deep chamber.  It will accept 38 Long Colt cartridges at full loaded length.  However the bullets need to be Hollow base.  It will chamber 38 Special with a flush seated 148 gr hollow based wadcutter. (or even seated out a bit).  Most shooters using this setup shoot the 38Special HBWC as it is a more readily available bullet than a roundnose hollowbase.  Obviously, the 38Long Colt can also be loaded with a HBWC.  I also managed to shoot some 357  loaded with 148 gr HBWC, but the chamber is tightened up that far forward and not advisable.  I load about 3.1 gr of Bullseye, 231 or Titegroup.  The revolver shoots about where the percussion roundballs shoot, high.  Hogdon has a website with loads including the 38LC, but as I say, it also needs hollobased  bullets to shoot in the 375 bore.  Mine shoot as accurately at CAS distances as a normal 38 Revolver does with the same ammo.

[Will52100]

What Flint said, I considered sleaving the barrel on mine, but after seeing the price of HBWC's it's not worth the effort, there just too cheap.  The round nosed HB bullits River Juntion sells are a little to pricey.

I had to send the breach plate on mine back because of a bad firing pin spring, very good customer service and hope to get it back shortly.

I was expecting to have to time the gun or do at least a little fitting, but outside of cutting the loading port in the frame it was a drop in affair.  I did have to shave a couple thou' off the barrel to get the wedge to seat though.

[Joseph Wheeler]

About the modern  Conversion cylinders such as those offered by " Fall Creek Sutlery" and others . How many of you guys use them. Are they safe and perform well ?  ? And can .38 special be subsituted in any .38 long colt cylinder ? Also does anybody know if there is a conversion available for '51 navies chambered in .44  ? i know the reason we all own this modern replicas is for the fun and nastalgia in loading and firing these charcoal burners with balls and caps , but I think it would be fun to also have a cartridge cylinder on hand to use in a situation where black powder loads would be inconvenient , only making these great pistols more versital .

[Flint]

Joseph, the conversion cylinders offered by Fall Creek, Taylors, River Junction and others are safe, and they are all made by either R&D or Kirst, with most of the dealers being exclusive, as Taylors sells R&D, and River Junction sells Kirst.  

I don't know if all guns chambered in 38LC can chamber the 38 Special, but the original cartridge used a heel type bullet at 375 diameter, so a proper chamber should accept that bullet, and if it will, the case diameter will be run out to the throat without a step, and would accept a 38 Special cartridge case.  In the case of the conversion cylinders, they are short and will only accept a 38 special with a full wadcutter bullet seated flush.  

No-one does and no-one will offer a 44 cylinder for the 51 or even the 60 Colt type.  That is stated even on the Kirst website.  The only conversion cylinders in 44 or 45 Caliber are for Remington type revolvers.

[stepnmud]

I too had to shave off a few thousands off the barrel to make the Kirst Cylinder work, but easier to take off metal than to add it. After opening up the frame with a dremel drum sander as per directions, I'm happy with the setup. Only fired 30 rounds so far using 38 special cases with a .375 lead ball crimped on mid way and blackpowder. Did see a local outfit selling .38 148 gr. HBWC and may have to try them, 500 hundred for around $22. dollars, and need to melt out the smokeless lube and re-pan lube with blackpowder lube.

[D R Greysun]

Double Wack!

[D R Greysun]

Hey thar Ya'll,
I don't wanna dump cold water on a hot subject BUT how is it SASS legal ta shoot HBWC or for that matter hollow base anything? Seems I remember "Plain Base" boolits are order of the day.  Just askin'!
D R

[Flint]

DRG, the factory Remington 45 Colt bullet is hollowbased.  Hollowbase bullets were also fairly common in such calibers as 41 Colt, 38 LC, etc due to the variations in bore dimensions found in the late 19th Century and early 20th.  All the early heel type bullets were later replaced with hollow base in order to get the bullet inside the case.  The bores remained (the early ones) at 375.  The hollowbased 44 (originally heel type at case diameter) shot through a 45 bore in the early 44Colts.  Modern 44 Colt bores are the same as 44 Special, but a hollowbase would be necessary to shoot in an early black powder gun.