Author Topic: Bare Shaft Tuning (Read 935 times)

skoutfitter · « **on:** March 26, 2004, 04:40:39 PM »

Just wondering if any of you have done any experimenting with bare shaft tuning. I am currently shooting an Alpine Stealth SS and have got bare shafts to group with fletched ones out to 30 yds. I am still amazed at what a difference tuning this way makes in allowing you to shoot fixed broad heads to fly exactly like field tips. Not an easy task but well worth the effort.

Stan M. · « **Reply #1 on:** April 05, 2004, 05:21:24 PM »

I'm new to this forum and this post got my attention. I had read somewhere on another site and they talked about tuning with a bare nonfletched arrow. I was wanting to get more information on this technique.
I just bought a Mathews Q2 and I 'm getting ready to tune it in the near future. They were saying this method is better than paper tuning. I'm not sure.
Any links or instructions on this would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Stan

skoutfitter · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2004, 03:25:32 PM »

I do not know of any links to information about the subject but I have been doing it for some time now with excellent results. Keep in mind not every bow will be able to accomplish shooting a bare shaft and those that do will most likely require a little tinkering. This is the way I look at it and why I go to the extreme of tuning this way. Your fletching stabilizes your arrow almost immediately after it leaves the bow. I have watch slow motion video on how this happens and it is amazing. An unfletched arrow that remains stable and straight in flight allows you not only greater accuracy but also allows you to shoot fixed broadheads without ever making any changes to your bow and they will impact with field tips everytime. Start by paper tuning with a bare shaft before shooting any distance and make sure your cam and idle wheel are straight (no leaning) or you can forget it ever happening. There is quite a bit to this process but if you are interested in more info send me a PM and we can exchange phone numbers. Just keep in mind if the fletching stabilizes an arrow allowing it to fly straight think of the increased accuracy and speed associated with an arrow that flies straight without any correction. The fletching is just icing on the cake to a perfectly tuned bow arrow combination and when this is accomplished you know for a fact that the rest, limbs, cam, idle wheel. knock point etc. are perfect. Oh ya there is one more variable THE SHOOTER.

Stan M. · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2004, 03:48:37 PM »

skoutfitter,
Thanks for the reply. The bow is in the shop at the moment getting a cam swap,string,and cable as well. This all due to my different draw length and the bow had to be changed out to fit me. But I got a decent deal and saved my buddy's marriage. :lol: He had to get rid of something since he bought a new bow.
It will be a few weeks when I'm ready to start tuning. The cost of the bow and the new parts has set me back and it will probably be next payday before I get some arrows. I will do some research and some tinkering as well. I will PM you when the time draws near.
Thanks for your help,
Stan

Dutch/AL · « **Reply #4 on:** April 08, 2004, 07:14:51 AM »

Here is a tutorial and video that might be of some help.

http://www.bowsite.com/BOWSITE/features/articles/tuning/papertuning/indexpt.cfm

Stan M. · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2004, 01:02:38 PM »

The tutorial is helpful. I could not get the video to work. I have an old PC. I did not see anything on bare arrow tuning. I will use this as a reference though, after I tinker some with bare arrow tuning. I will then compare the bare tuning to how the fletched arrow punches the paper. I like to experiment with whatever I'm shooting.
This is a helpful tool for paper tuning. It puts the info. at your finger tips and it will keep me from have to search my trusty ol' archery book.
Thanks,
Stan

Arrroman · « **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2004, 06:05:13 AM »

skoutfitter,
Bareshaft tuning works. Its sort of a reverse enginneering, if you can get an arrow to fly well off the bow without feathers it will do it even better with feathers. In a similar manner if you get the broadheads to fly well then field points should also fly well. If you can get things to work with a handicap they work even better without one. Good luck hunting!

Dutch/AL · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2004, 07:35:14 AM »

Bare shaft tuning and paper tuning are in essence the exact same thing, except that the paper tuning allows you to leave the fletchings on your arrow, and still see if it is coming out of the bow sideways by showing a tear in the paper to the right or left. Once you understand the concept of paper tuning, then you really don't need to paper tune anymore, but rather just bare shaft tune, as all that really matters is "Are your arrows hitting the spot you are aiming at."

Fletchings will straighten up a crooked flying arrow very quickly, hence the need to shoot thru paper. Without the fletchings, you are able to see if your arrow is coming out of the bow at an angle, so there's really no need to shoot thru paper.

In a nutshell, overspined or underspined arrows come off the riser angled to the right or the left depending on stiffness. The ultimate goal is to get an arrow which is exactly the right spine for your bow, so that it comes off the riser shooting squarely, and bends just the right amount to clear the riser without bending too much.

If you are a right handed shooter, then shafts that are too stiff will try to fly to the left of the spot you are aiming at, and too weak will try to fly to the right of the spot you are aiming at.

Arrows that are extremely weak can seem to fly extremely radical and all over the place. Arrows that are extremely stiff will still fly hard to the left, but will sometimes slap the riser on release, because there is not enough paradox for the arrow to clear the riser cleanly.

If you are a left handed shooter, expect the arrows to fly exactly the opposite of the illustration given above.

Also, if you are shooting a compound bow with an adjustable rest, all that is needed to adjust spine is to move your arrow rest to the left or right, unless your arrow is extremely over or under spined.

As arrowman states, fletchings should only be on your arrow to compensate for broadheads, or for mistakes in your release. Remove as many variables as you can from your setup, and you will in most cases shoot more accurately.

SingleShotShorty · « **Reply #8 on:** April 12, 2004, 09:38:57 AM »

either shooting a bare shaft or a fletched arrow through paper a bow can be tuned to shoot a perfect hole. The problem is that not every shooter can shoot a perfec hole with a perfectly tuned bow. A buddy of mine has a shooting machine for bows and we perfectly tuned a bow to not only shoot a perfect hole in paper but consistantly shoot as many arrows through the same hole as you wanted to shoot. But none of us good duplicate a perfect hole with this bow. It just goes to show that the human element is the real varible when tuning a bow. Just my opinion.

Dutch/AL · « **Reply #9 on:** April 12, 2004, 01:42:07 PM »

That's true sss, that's why most experienced shooters forego the paper tuning, and simply bare shaft tune. The paper tuning can sometimes drive you crazy trying to get that perfect hole.

It's as simple as this. If you're a right handed shooter, arrows that try to fly to the left are too stiff, and arrows that try to fly to the right are too weak. An arrow that has perfect paradox will bend perfectly as it clears the riser, and will shoot center.

Watch how the arrow hits the target. If the arrow is flying downrange sideways, not only is it the wrong spine, but if it's a hunting arrow, it will lose a ton of momentum when it enters an animal sideways. That's why some guys shooting 70 pound bows can't get complete passthrus.

Stan M. · « **Reply #10 on:** April 12, 2004, 04:28:39 PM »

I'm getting what all of you are saying. Now you speak about having the proper spine arrow effecting the arrow flight.
If I know my draw weight, weight of tip, length of arrow and the type cam, with all this said, if I use the manufacturer's chart, would it be possible to have the wrong spine?
Following their reccomendations wouldn't that eliminate most of your your left to right problems from the beggining. Just having to fine tune with your rest.
Thanks for all the help!
Stan

Dutch/AL · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2004, 05:35:54 AM »

Stan, for most shooters, the arrows that the Easton chart recommends are wrong. They are in the ballpark, but they are not exact. They cannot be, since every shooter and every bows performance is different.

You've got 2 options on getting the right spine shaft. You can try different size shafts, or you can move your arrow rest left or right if you are close in spine already, but not quite there.

Also, if you're shooting the weighted carbons, you can add internal weights to the front of the shaft if it is too stiff, or you can add internal weight to the back if it's too weak. Personally I would recommend carbons over aluminum for a new shooter, since they are much more durable, as well as easier to find the correct spined shaft. Plus they usually only come in about 4 sizes instead of the long list of aluminum sizes.

I have found that for me personally the perfect shaft is slightly underspined. For some reason that works best for me, but most of that is dictated by bow performance and release technique.

Stan M. · « **Reply #12 on:** April 13, 2004, 04:30:18 PM »

Dutch/Al
I did not realize that spine charts were more or less a reference. I was planning on shooting the Gold Tip XT Carbon arrows. The Gold Tip chart seems to be a lot easier than the Easton chart.
I will have to get the arrows and shoot them and see what happens. I can't tune it behind the computer. My local pro shop could probably help as well. They have a range there.
Thanks Again,
Stan

SingleShotShorty · « **Reply #13 on:** April 20, 2004, 10:42:19 AM »

Let me throw in another thing to think about. It also makes a difference with arrow flight if you shoot fingers or a mechanical release. If shooting a release you can shoot a somewhat under spined arrow and it will fly like a dart. but you will get bad arrow flight if you shoot the same arrow with fingers.

skoutfitter · « **Reply #14 on:** April 20, 2004, 02:54:47 PM »

It is also interesting to note that using a mechanical release with a string loop eliminates almost all spine issues. This information came directly from Eastern representative and US Olympic Gold Medalist Jay Barrs at a certification conference I attended in Penn a couple of years ago. According to Jay in exstensive testing perfomed by Eastern with a mechanical shooting machine virtually no difference was found when using a broad spectrum of arrow sizes. It was also at this meeting that we were informed of Easterns intention to simplify the arrow sizing chart because so many people were having difficulty figuring it out.