Author Topic: Terminal performance-Precision Keith Nose HP vs Dead Center (Read 832 times)

smoky · « **on:** April 28, 2004, 05:17:33 AM »

In your experiences, will there be much differences between these two projectiles in regards to game shot within the normal range of the Keith Nose HP.

Assuming both will group well in my gun, I am wondering if I should use the Keith Nose for woods hunting and the DC for open hunting, OR, should I just use the DC for all my hunting.

Thanks,

Smoky

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #1 on:** April 28, 2004, 06:49:36 AM »

Hi Smoky,

To even try to answer, mentioning your gun, your "normal range," specific bullet weight, specific game, and muzzle velocities would all be a big help to attempt a helpful answer in even a very broad sense. :?

smoky · « **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2004, 09:13:15 AM »

Sorry for omitting that important bit of info.

Guns are Knight Wolverine .50 cal and Encore .50 cal.

Woods hunting shots for me may be from a few feet to perhaps 100 yards. Field/Clearcut/Company Road opportunities that I have available on my land allow me to see for way further than I would ever shoot (several hundred yards). The farthest I would likely ever attempt a muzzle loader shot would be 250 yards, and that would only be after much practice AT THAT RANGE and complete confidence in the gun and bullet to do the job.

I am talking about white tail hunting with the 360 grain Keith Nose vs the 200 grain or 220 grain dead center or the 195 grain Dead Center Duplex.

Smoky

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2004, 09:39:46 AM »

Taking a quote from the maker:

Quote

This bullet has a ballistic coefficiency of .137 and is at its best under 150 yards. Total expansion is achieved with as little as 50 grains of powder making it the ideal bullet for the entire family.

The KEITH NOSE .45 was designed to allow heavier bullets to be used in slower twist rifles. Many groups under 1 M.O.A. have been shot using 300 or 330 grain bullets and a 1-48" twist barrel. The 360 grain will shoot very well in a 1-38" or quicker twist.

Your results may vary, but it is unlikely that a .45 / 50 360 KN and a .40 / 50 Dead Center are going to group remotely the same in your rifles.

For whitetail, with a 90 - 100 gr. charge, it is really hard to think of a situation where a 220 grain Dead Center is insufficient. You'll have dramatically higher muzzle velocity, less recoil, shorter time of flight, and a flatter, more wind resistant trajectory with a Dead Center. As it happens, the .40 / 50 220 gr. Dead Center is also the most accurate bullet I've tried out of my Encore or Knight Elite-- it is hard for me personally to see the benefit of a slow, heavy, loopy, ballistically inefficient 360 gr. Keith Nose for deer in a 1:28 twist barrel.

smoky · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2004, 09:54:12 AM »

I don't either, as long as the DC will perform "up close" like the hollow point most likely will.

Smoky

AndyHass · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2004, 10:36:04 AM »

I could never get the Keith Nose to group in my gun, but judging from my backstop they expand much more explosively. However, I have shot deer with QT/DC from 10 to 198 yards and they have done the job at EVERY distance.
The only possible advantage I can see for the KN on deer is that it might have less deflection hitting brush in the woods. However given the soft nature of the lead I am uncertain this is even true; a Hornaday XTP might be a better choice for this circumstance.
I'd reserve the KN for the same purpose Cecil Epp talks about...when deer need to go down NOW. When a run of 30-40 yards might make the deer unrecoverable...ie near water and hostile property lines.

grouse · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2004, 02:43:49 PM »

Quote from: smoky

I don't either, as long as the DC will perform "up close" like the hollow point most likely will.

Smoky

The DeadCenter will do it's job no problem. As long as you do yours
and make a descent shot. DeadCenter all the way.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2004, 09:22:12 PM »

Quote from: smoky

I don't either, as long as the DC will perform "up close" like the hollow point most likely will.

Smoky

Smokey, a DC is a hollow point. The polymer tip is there ensure expansion, not prohibit it. You get a few BC minipoints, but it is still soft lead. The faster you push it (or, closer the animal) the quicker Bambi gets a pulverizing pancaking powerpacked pummeling of proportional potency.

I think it kills them, also. :yeah:

Underclocked · « **Reply #8 on:** April 29, 2004, 05:39:10 AM »

OT - Randy, your aol account is bouncing my emails. Too late now anyway, deal is gone.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #9 on:** April 29, 2004, 06:24:50 AM »

Quote from: Underclocked

Too late now anyway, deal is gone.

:cry:

smoky · « **Reply #10 on:** April 30, 2004, 05:15:05 AM »

O.K. Randy,

You state that the faster and/or closer the better it performs. Should I then be considering the DC 195 grain in the .50 cal duplex configuration in order to optimize velocity?

Thanks,

Smoky

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #11 on:** April 30, 2004, 05:36:49 AM »

Quote from: smoky

You state that the faster and/or closer the better it performs. Should I then be considering the DC 195 grain in the .50 cal duplex configuration in order to optimize velocity?

IMO, no. Terminal performance is a broader issue, I just mentioned that it expands faster. A QT expands faster than a Dead Center at virtually all velocities.

The velocity increase with a 195 Duplex does not exist at short range-- the .40 / 50 200 gr. is faster.

Why? With two sabots, the 195 gr. Duplex weighs more than the 200 gr. .40 / 50-- the extra weight is from the extra plastic. I simply prefer more lead, as in the 220 gr. along with the bigger wound cavity.