Ultra light loads for 12G

[MnMike]

Shotshell reloading puzzles me. It all seems to be so strict. In rifles or handguns there is a range. You don't want to go above the max but you can load light (within reason). I would lke to do a 1/2 to 5/8 oz load of shot with a mild charge on a 12G hull (for a shooter who would prefer a .410). This does not exist in the "recipes" that are given in manuals. I have done an unsanctioned 3/4 oz load that shoots quite well. Am I risking life and limb to go below that?

mike

[Thomas Krupinski]

It's strict because the pressures are substantially lower and the components must form a combination to fill the case.  

Having said that I don't believe lowering the shot weight will have any bearing other than reducing the recoil.  I have fired some loads with little to no shot to clear the case (on messed up poorly crimped reloads) for reloading.  No bad results.

I think if you put some cardboard wads to take up the space inside the bottom of the shot cavity of the wad, what you are suggesting is possible.

[Duffy]

Like Thomas said the combo has to be proper to produce a shell that is full so it assembles and crimps right. I also don't see a problem with using filler wads to raise the shot level for a proper crimp. When I was experimenting with a load I worked up the powder just like in a metallic cartrige. I started about 2 grains under what a different load had shown with no ill effects. The only thing was that it was slow and dirty until I reached the level that I wanted which was also about max psi also. I would start off with the lightest target load and work down from there. If you use a field load the powder used might be too slow and produce bloopers and poor ballistics (crummy patterns). Also make sure you have a good crimp to help get things lit properly. Some of the Winchester Super Lite loads are pretty soft recoiling too and in a 12 ga gun may be close to a 410.

[dakotashooter2]

The new Hogdon Annual list several light loads in 2" and 2 1/2"  shells.
I believe these can be made from cut down cases and use a roll crimp. I think that if you use a Mec loader you could pick up the slip on spacer they sell for changing from 3" to 2 3/4"(without changing the press)and possibly use a star crimp on some 2 1/2" shells. The crimp die may need to be trimmed thoughand the case mouths would have to be skeeved (thinned). These probably won't function through an auto and may give trouble in a pump.  Also, Agulia makes some 2" shells, #7 1/2 and slugs.

[Thomas Krupinski]

Mike,

In your question you defined the shooter as someone who would prefer a 410.  I took this to mean that you were considering recoil for that part of the statement.  

There is another relationship to consider that corresponds to the relationship of the bore size to the length of the shot string.  As you put less shot in, the shot string decreases.  As a result your timing have to be more exact.  You could get to the point below 3/4 ounce in the 12 bore where it becomes too difficult to hit a moving target, but your patterns at a stationary target would look good.

Some ideas for recoil reduction would be slower brning powder, less shot, action that absorbs recoil and heavier gun weight.

[dakotashooter2]

Thomas has a good point but on the other side of the coin I've always been lead to believe that given the same load of shot this effect will be less prevalent in a 12 than a 410 because of the frontal area advantage. In other words a 2" column of shot from a 410 will be more strung out than say a 3/4" column from a 12 ga. thus in effect a more efficient pattern (12ga.) for moving game.  I have often heard that 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" loads offer far better patterns than 3". The theory being the more shot you try to force through a given size bore the more the shot is distorted. The more shot is distorted the more irregular patterns become, not forgeting velocity as another factor.  As I understand it 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" are still the prevalent rounds used in most European countries. In checking the Hogedonannual I referenced I see that 7/8 oz is still the lightest 2" load listed and still runs a bit over 1100 FPS. Probably no recoil advantage over a 7/8 oz 2 3/4".

Then I have to ask if your shooter would prefer something lighter why not go to a 20 or 28 ga gun  or if shooting a double get sub-gauge tubes?

[MnMike]

I want to thank all who responded. I created a few 1/2 oz loads and will try them this weekend. I used one over powder wad and two under shot wads. The crimp was OK (after I worked this out). I plan to check the bore after every shot to make sure everything made it out.

My daughter likes to shoot but does not like recoil. Her favorite rifle is a .22, favorite pistol is a 223 Contender. Heaviest thing she likes is an SKS. I think she would like trap if I can get the recoil down. Then again maybe not - that's why I don't buy a 28 yet.

thanks again,
mike :grin:

[rickyp]

If you are worried about pressures when working up loads.
You can get "gauge_mate tubes" from cabela's. they allow one to shoot smaller shells out of a 12 ga.  they come in 410, 28, and 20. you can always get a few of each and work her up to full 12 ga loads. this is a norther alternative to reduced loads.

[MnMike]

Again, thanks all.

I shot the loads this weekend and they took out a few clays and kicked like a baby's sneeze. They are a bit dirty, but cleaning is easy. I tried some variations like eliminating the over powder wad and using three or four on top. Will try those later. What I got works. You guys have a nice forum.

mike

[texasbilly]

MnMike:

What was the recipe for the ultra light 12 gauge loads that you tested?

[MnMike]

Ultra Light load

Federal target hull
15gr Red Dot
Federal primer
1/2 oz shot
3 to 4  1/8" 20G felt wads (from Midway) - tried one under two in shot cup, 3 in shot cup, 4 in shot cup. All about the same. Using more helps crimping a bit.
Use at own risk, I am more of a rifle/pistol reloader- definitly not an expert with shotguns.

Mike