TC-H&R comparison

[Wlscott]

I guess it's not all in fun anymore.  

Bgjohn, who the hell are you to decide how well off or not I am??

I like shooting these guns for my own reasons.  I don't need to justify it to you or anyone else.  I do have some very nice guns with pretty finishes and good workmanship.  I also have some tactical rigs with camo finishes that aren't so pretty, but are extremely accurate.  I STILL like my Ultra Rifle.  

Tom was at least being somewhat tactful in his approach to disagreeing with us.  Why don't YOU go back to whatever forum you came from and leave us to "revel in our ignorance"?

If you have so much wisdom, what are you doing on here anyway?  Apparently you already know it all.

[scruffy]

Tom, if you have anything new to say I'll respond to it.  Unfortunately everything in your post is old and has been addressed in previous posts.

I'm not going to beat the nef vs tc horse any longer.  This thread already contains all of the information about TC's strength and weeknesses, as well as NEF's.  Neither are perfect, both have their shot comings the other doesn't have.  It's up to everyone to decide for themselves which they like better, or get both.

Beyond that, this thread is spiraling down hill.

later,
scruffy

[Wlscott]

Thomas, in my opinion, I think the reason behind having to send an H&R/Ultra frame back to the factory to have a new barrel "fitted" is pure CYA Legal BS.  

I know many people who have bought a barrel second hand, took it home, slapped it on their frame, and away they went.  No problems.  

The only thing I wouldn't want to do is install a newer "higher pressure" barrel like a .308 on an older frame, OR on a shotgun frame.  

Is it a "system"?  Sure.  Is it a different system than the TC system.  Yep.  

Is it better?  I guess that depends on which side of the fence you're sitting on.

[Mac11700]

Thomas:

No one here is doubting or saying the TC's aren't a viable wepon system that has some steriling options...but ...one does have to question some of the NEF bashing that has been taking place on this thread.

Your contintion is the TC's options outweigh those of the inexpensive cost of the NEF's..".buy having a complete weapon system in one gun"....but by having to  spend a great  deal more to purchase other barrels.....as to the said purchasing of  several complete firearms for a reduced amount...or being able to sweap out any barrel to any frame without the need to send the gun back iin to the Manufacture...

You veiw point is valid but only to a degree... and is understood by many...however...we are comparing two distinct and different weapons in a totally different price range..

Some folks feel  that their hard earned cash is better spent on buying several guns for the price of 1... the Handi's shine in this regaurd....you can go to almost any Walmart and get  3 of them for the price of 1 TC...and that sir is called value...or for most...stretching your dollar and getting the most for it.

As I have said earlier both aren't without problems...the TC has it's fair share as well...and from reading some of the threads on the different forums around..it seems to have a major problem with headspacing and non-concentric chambers...this doesn't seem the case with the Handi...though some would feel that the sticky extraction would constitute a major problem...but some judicious cleaning on the owners part usually eliminates this one..as to being an accurate rifle...it is well known just how accurate the Handi's can be..and nobody here is saying the TC's aren't as accurate by the way..the point is..... how much are you going to spend to get to the same level of accuracy?

We here do love our little rifles...and consider them an excellent value...while there are several misguided folks that may only consider them "BOAT ANCHORS" ...you'll find the vast majority of people who actully own and use them..have a totally different opinion of them.....and as a side note..a-lot of us have owned and shot TC's as well...along with several other high end bolts guns or semi-auto's....so we are talking out of firsthand knowledge when giving our opinion.........


Mac

[Mac11700]

Tom,
These guys have wasted their money and are living in denial. Fit and finish? Doesn't mean anything to them. It takes an appreciation for quality gained through the years to get to the point we're at. We have to be understanding since they aren't as well off (in more ways than one) as we are. In 20-30 years they might have gained some wisdom and make a move in our direction. In the meantime let them revel in their ignorance. I have spoken.  
JM

 
 
Do you feel that you are so far above us with this kind of statement???
 
You have no clue about what I own or have owned...what I appreciate or not...nor do you have this knowledge of the rest of the forum members here...
 
I revel in my knowledge and ownership of several truly fine and collectable firearms...and the only ignorance that has been shown here..is yours...now let me help a little in your direction...stop trying to fan a major flame here...honest discussion and debates is how knowledge is passed...not making derogetory remarks ....there...I have spoken!!!
 
Mac

[Thomas Krupinski]

Thomas:

No one here is doubting or saying the TC's aren't a viable wepon system that has some steriling options...but ...one does have to question some of the NEF bashing that has been taking place on this thread.

Your contintion is the TC's options outweigh those of the inexpensive cost of the NEF's..".buy having a complete weapon system in one gun"....but by having to  spend a great  deal more to purchase other barrels.....as to the said purchasing of  several complete firearms for a reduced amount...or being able to sweap out any barrel to any frame without the need to send the gun back iin to the Manufacture...

You veiw point is valid but only to a degree... and is understood by many...however...we are comparing two distinct and different weapons in a totally different price range..

Some folks feel  that their hard earned cash is better spent on buying several guns for the price of 1... the Handi's shine in this regaurd....you can go to almost any Walmart and get  3 of them for the price of 1 TC...and that sir is called value...or for most...stretching your dollar and getting the most for it.

As I have said earlier both aren't without problems...the TC has it's fair share as well...and from reading some of the threads on the different forums around..it seems to have a major problem with headspacing and non-concentric chambers...this doesn't seem the case with the Handi...though some would feel that the sticky extraction would constitute a major problem...but some judicious cleaning on the owners part usually eliminates this one..as to being an accurate rifle...it is well known just how accurate the Handi's can be..and nobody here is saying the TC's aren't as accurate by the way..the point is..... how much are you going to spend to get to the same level of accuracy?

We here do love our little rifles...and consider them an excellent value...while there are several misguided folks that may only consider them "BOAT ANCHORS" ...you'll find the vast majority of people who actully own and use them..have a totally different opinion of them.....and as a side note..a-lot of us have owned and shot TC's as well...along with several other high end bolts guns or semi-auto's....so we are talking out of firsthand knowledge when giving our opinion.........


Mac

Mac,

I agree with what you are saying.  Although some with a strong emotional attachment to those little rifles are falling into the trap of taking my statements as bashing.  If that question had also been asked on another fourm you would probably also have a bunch of over there with the same sort of emotional bias taking offense.

I am not bashing them, but pointing out facts from what I am hearing from the people who made comments on this thread and conclusions from there.   I am learning things about them that I was courious about.  To compare and contrast capabilities should be done rationally, although emotional appeal can often distort perceptions of performance.

Now I know John, and I respect his performance in the shooting games he competes in.  He has some outstanding handcannons and they are not only Thompson Center products.  His standards of expectation are on a higher level than what I need and am satisified with.  For his level of competition they are necessary.

[Wlscott]

Thomas, I never really took exception to anything that was said until John started running his  mouth.

Hell, the boat anchor comment didn't even bother me.  It's all part of the game.  But when someone decides that they are better than me, or above me in some way because of the type of GUN that I shoot, that's what gets my back hairs up.  

I hope that we can continue in the future to have discussions about different things because you seem to be an intellegent and well spoken man.

[scruffy]

Tom's quote - To compare and contrast capabilities should be done rationally, although emotional appeal can often distort perceptions of performance.

You know Tom, I had to smile when I read that comment.  I'll say that exact comment back to you.  We can both talk about contrasting the capabilities without emotions, but neither of us are doing it.  It's very plain for us to see your bias, your posts are oozing with bias.  Go back and look at the attacks and commants made on us, the owners of nef stuff, in here.  It looks like bashing, but I guess if you're blinded by bias you might not see it that way, you might think your "enlightening" us.

Oh, and I wouldn't defend John, there's no defense for his statements.  All you do by trying to defend someone who has flamed the members of this forum is discredit yourself by association.

later,
scruffy

[Mac11700]

Tom:

I understand...and wasn't commenting on your statements in paticular...however...it really doesn't matter what level of compitition your at when you show  pure disdane towards our forum memembers or our little Handi's here. Whenever an individual starts showing their ignorance by making inflamatory remarks and  putting people down here...it sort of ruffles my feathers. While you may know this individual well,his allegations on the charecter of my fellow forum members,paticularly my fellow Handi owners,is out of place and unfounded,and lastly uncalled for,and to me is totally unacceptable....I suggest that you reread his statement...since he feels that you and himself are at a higher level...by his mear 20-30 years into this ..

Tom,
These guys have wasted their money and are living in denial. Fit and finish? Doesn't mean anything to them. It takes an appreciation for quality gained through the years to get to the point we're at. We have to be understanding since they aren't as well off (in more ways than one) as we are. In 20-30 years they might have gained some wisdom and make a move in our direction. In the meantime let them revel in their ignorance. I have spoken.
JM

I have a news flash for him...I've been into guns for over 40 years...and need no-man to tell me I don't have a appreciation for the finer things in life,or know the difference between them,.Also...I haven't wasted any money buying or modifying my Handi...it has allowed me to become friends with many here and have gained some valuable insight into the many different aspects of single shots.As for him being understanding that some of the members aren't as well off as he or you...that is so ludicrise and demeaning of my fellow members...I tell you something right now...I can go out and buy any rifle shotgun or pistol I choose to and pay cash for it...I give thanks to God for his blessing he has bestowed on me each and every day...BUT....I sure as hell don't flaunt it in front of those who don't...because I know everyone doesn't have the same...and his doing so...is Tackey...and Rude....If he doesn't want to associate with us...then my advice is for him not to...because I don't want him to look down his nose at me or anyone else here again.

Mac

[22KHornet]

May I just say that I do have a TC that I have had for about 5 years complete with 3 different barrels, I love that gun but come on.  To say that a TC is nicer it form and fit and that we have wasted our money and are living in denial sound like comments from someone living in denial, or at least there own little world.  I am having way more fun with my handi than I have with my TC.  
 
John if you want a single shot that really looks up to the caliber you portray you deserve then throw your POS TC in the lake and get a Ruger # 1.
 
This is turning into a playground, my toys are better than yours, no there not :roll:

[Thomas Krupinski]

You know Tom, I had to smile when I read that comment. I'll say that exact comment back to you. We can both talk about contrasting the capabilities without emotions, but neither of us are doing it. It's very plain for us to see your bias, your posts are oozing with bias. Go back and look at the attacks and commants made on us, the owners of nef stuff, in here. It looks like bashing, but I guess if you're blinded by bias you might not see it that way, you might think your "enlightening" us.

Scruffy,

I don't really think I am blinded by what I am using, just familar with it.  I am not familar with your NEF stuff.  I have enough toys to be able to play without an emotional bias that I have to defend.  Sure there are problems particular to Thompson Center and there are also problems (in my estimation) on how they do business and their product line.  I have told them so and they didn't like it either because of their vested interest in how they are doing what they do.

Now if you don't like John calling your toy a boat anchor, just tell him that his Contender wears combat boots, it's the same level.  Do I care or think it is reasonable? No, but that boat anchor was an insulting statement and sure seems to have struck a nerve with you.  That's just how he is, not going to defend his bluntness, manners or whatever, but he can shoot and does know his stuff.

And to the guys that take the lower cost option as they have other considerations, I have been there and know exactly what your dealing with in.  You can easily blow a lot of money on stuff that only offers a marginal increase in percieved performance or some other aspect that could be better spent elsewhere.

[scruffy]

But then look at what you got?  A weapon system or a mismatch of different parts that require hand fitting for cross compatability.

Apples and oranges, still fruit, just one is smooth and the other burns my stomach.

Couldn't resist!

You don't get it, and won't get it until you get past your biases and buy a NEF.  

- And on John's comments, boat anchor, nope.  It was his later comments, the one that was directed at you talking about us.  Remember?   :roll:

Again, you're going around and around, when you have something new I'll post.  But trying to explain something to someone who's biased and trying to use what you say to twist and prove their ego and choice of weapon is superior has gotten really old.....  :roll:

later,
scruffy

[marv]

Scruffy, You said it very well, MHO Few of us have 101, and other high dollar rifles. Marv.

[gwhilikerz]

I think  john is trying to overcompensate for some defiency. He must prove to himself that he is a better man than the rest of us. It's called a Napolean syndrome.

[Paul5388]

I think I can confirm the lack of need for fitting barrels to actions.  I have two shothgun barrels and three rifle barrels that will fit any of three receivers, two shotgun and one rifle.  At the present, I have 0 shotgun barrels on the shotgun receivers.  Two barrels were fitted by NEF for the rifle receiver, but they fit where ever I want to put them.  I posted some 250 gr cast Beartooth .360 DW groups on another site, that were shot with a shotgun receiver.  One barrel is second hand and it fits what ever I want it on.  

Three complete guns and two extra barrels for less than the price of one TC.

There must be some truth to "a fool and his money are soon parted" when it comes to buying TC's.

[Mac11700]

It's been requested of me to lock this topic down and I agree,so at 12:00 CST I'll do just that,,if someone has anything relivent to add to this topic...do so  by then...


Mac

[marv]

Yhanks Mac, arguing with TC people is just like arguing Ford, Chev,
 and Dodge  Marv.

[ratherbefishin]

thankyou to all the people who took the time to post.I got the answer I was looking for, concluding the H&R guns are a good utility  firearm, accurate and well contructed albeit not as finely finished as more expensive guns are[ understandable].
 Unfortionately, it seems the advantage of  the barrell exchange won;t benefit me as it is confined to US residents.