Author Topic: More Mauser Action Questions.  (Read 1307 times)

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Offline New Hampshire

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« on: May 21, 2004, 06:43:57 AM »
Ok, I was looking through the SHotgun News and came across these: http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=&chrSuperSKU=851010&MC=YJ

They are new production Mauser actions from Charles Daly (stamped Daly but said to be made in Yougo.)  I remember seeing them in last years Brownells catalog, but never thought about them.  Well Now I have a few Q's.

They apparently do some work on them to make life easier for you.  They are drilled and tapped for Weaver/Redfield mounts already.  The bolt is a turned down (no rewelding on a bolt.)  Its in the white (uless I get an already bbl'd action.)  So is all these pluses enough to equal up the value of the action?  Seems that saving time on these would be worth the money.

I am still wanting to build it in 6.5x55, but I have not ruled out a .270, 25-06 and a few other calibers.  But the smallest standard length action they offer has a bolt face of .470", is this suitable for the 6.5 or am I locked into the 06 based cartridges?

Adams and Bennet bbls run for about $100.  Are these good investments or should  more expensive bbls be considered?  And how hard is it to finish ream a short chamber?  I dont exactly have a whole lot of gunsmithing experience under the belt yet, so what should be left to the pros to do?

And finaly, should a bbl and action be blued before assembled together, of can the bbl'd action beblued?

Thanks again,
Brian M.

P.S. As a side note, I noticed that Numerich also has M1 carbine recievers for $100.  How hard/easy/worthwhile would it be to assemble one of those carbines?  Is it a dumb idea, or is it a sensable project?
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Offline Mikey

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« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2004, 07:11:37 AM »
New Hampshire:  I hope I can answer a few of your questions but will have to leave the chambering questions and those regarding rebarrelling of the M1 Carbine to those more experienced and knowledgeable.  

The Charles Daly actions are built on the Yugo M48/48A actions which are built to handle the 57mm length cartridges and are a bit shorter (1/4" I think) than the longer M98/VZ24 actions.  They may handle the longer cartridges based on the 06 case and would handle the 55mm length of the 6.5 Swede (or the 7.5x55 Swiss) if the case head on the 6.5 was the same as the 06/308/7x57/8x57 but the 6.5 Swede's case head is a bit larger than the others and the bolt face may need a bit of reworking to get proper functioning.

Also, a turned down bolt doesn't mean you are going to get any scope clearance.  The turned down bolts I've had needed to be cut and welded, ground and polished and I still had verrrrry little room to properly activate that military bolt even when I had a scope (even with a small eye bell) attached.  With turned down bolts you usually have to mount the scope with tall mounts which may not be the best arrangement for quick target acquisition.  I think a better idea might be to obtain a VZ-24 action with the straight bolt and to either have that bolt cut and welded as close to 90 degrees downside as possible or to get another bolt handle from Brownell's and to have that welded at a significant enough angle to give you lots of bolt/scope clearance and room to maneuver your hand around the bolt handle.  

However, if you want to build yourself a 6.5 Swede, why not get one - either a M96 or a M38 and have that worked.  You may even wind up saving yourself some $.  I found my M38 to have a #1 barrel (best there is on the Swede milsurps) and before I had my custom work begun made sure the thing would shoot 2" or better at 100 yds with its open sights.  Then, once it was finished, with scope and all, she was shootin' snake-eyes at the same distance and better.  I think that in comparison my total costs for customizing (actually, sporterizing) minus the costs of an overly expensive stock, were less than what it would have cost me to start with an action, then a barrel, then the (necessary) action work, etc.  Also, let's not forget an aftermarket trigger assembly and the Bold Triggers are very nice for the Swedes.  So, there are ways to get what you really want without killing your wallet, and getting what you want so you can go for a total re-custom job later.  That way you could use the VZ for your caliber change choices to the 06 case family later and still have your 6.5 (doancha just love it).  

As for the bluing - I would get it all done at the same time - seems to match up better.

Re: the M1 - they can be rebarrelled in the original caliber but since it would be most likely with a mil-surp barrel, why not try to find one in good shape and good working order.  If, however, you want to go to a custom caliber, like  the 5.7 Johnson or some other caliber, then rebarrel but, the carbine is limited by its action and magazine length so you don't have a lot of room for change with that one.  I think that if a carbine came my way I would leave it as it is and just have fun with it rather than try to do anything on a more serious level.

I apologize for the negative news (or ideas) and hope I haven't dampened your enthusiasm for your projects but do hope I have managed to provide some measure of help and insight.  This be Mikey.

Offline New Hampshire

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« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2004, 08:31:10 AM »
Thanks for the re-ply.  I am not totaly dead locked on the 6.5 yet.  I actually left out another serious competitor I forgot to mention, the .35 Whelen.  I was talking to a friend today and we got on the subject of said caliber and I have been, as well as he, at this cartirdges potential.

But good or bad is fine.  These are the things I like knowing before dropping good money.  As for the M1 carbine.  What they are selling is just the reciever only.  No bbl.  I would probably look at staying with a .30 carbine chambering.  I ask all these questions because, like I said in the previous post I made a few weeks ago, Im looking for a project.  As I mentioned above, my hands on is lacking right now.  I want to delve into a good project, even if it takes a year or more to complete, for many reasons.  I look at bare recivers and see potential projects.  They may not be glamourous, like the M1 carbine, but they would be good working projects that would not require machining skills.

So I guess Ill keep a look out for more ideas (still the 1911 idea, but I dont know how hard fitting frame and slides are, that might be a little above my current abilities.)

Thanks,
Brian M.
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Offline gunnut69

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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2004, 10:26:13 AM »
Barreling a mauser is a good starter project and can be easily accomplished by the ameture smith with a minmum of tooling.  A finish reamer and a go/no go gauge set are all that's needed when a short chambered barrel is used.  Depending on the care taken the barrel may also need a bit of lathe work before is correctly sets up in the receiover.  this isn't too bad and may not be needed at all.  Of course you will also need the barrel vise and an action wrench..although these can be used on the next project also..  The 6.5x55 ammo made in this country will use a standard case head diameter and the difference is quite minor in any case.  The Swedish mausers are really well built but their design is inferior to the 98's.  The worst problem is the actions gas handling properties.  The 98 is quite superior.  Still I've done several M96 conversions and if in dessent shape they shoot very well indeed..  Drilling and tapping alone can run from from $40 to $80 locally,  $80 or so for a bolt alteration(plus the handle,  close to $100 for a trigger and the $100 or so for the action and the Zastava built actions your looking at seem fairly cheap..  The commercial bolt shroud and hinged floorplate are bonuses.  After the work is complete on the metal and the stock, is the best time for bluing, usually while the stock checkering is in process.  Good luck and remember we're here if you have further questions...
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Offline Big Paulie

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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2004, 11:48:02 AM »
Okay guys, sorry to wade in again, and maybe I am crazy, but when I look at the link that was provided, it strongly appears to me that the Charles Daley mauser actions that are being discussed, made in Yugoslavia, are the exact same actions, made on the exact same equipment, by the exact same people, as the Interarms Mark X action that I wrote about a few days ago.  Interarms is not importing these rifles or actions any more, so it looks like Charles Daley picked up the rights to import the product line.

       These actions work fine with 30-06 length cartridges with absolutely no problem.

    If I am wrong, please let me know, because I love to learn about new things.

Best Regards,

Big Paulie

Offline springer222

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« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2004, 12:14:51 PM »
Big Paulie is correct. They are the same as the Mark X of old. They are drilled and tapped, have an adjustable trigger w/side safety, and seem to be very well made. Considering the cost, by the time you "sporterize" a military action (depending own aftermarket trigger, saftey changes, etc.), you will have as much in you military action as you have in the Charles Daly. And if you just want pretty wood, they are also selling barreled actions.

Offline Judson

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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2004, 12:48:34 PM »
The Charles Daly actions are the same as the Mark X  Mausers actions but alittle cheepened in quality.   All require some work and the trigger should be pitched and a good one installed.    They are advertised in small, 308 length, standard, 3006 length and magnum, .375 length.     They are not the M48 action but good luck finding one as Daly does not have them in stock.
There is no such thing as over kill!!!!  :-)

Offline New Hampshire

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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2004, 01:20:45 PM »
I managed to get a hold of the Brownells page the same actions were listed on.  It says the bolt handle is "beautifully scuplted to allow for clearance of low mounted scopes."  I like what gunnut69 has to say.  It seems the little "extras" they throw on for you will make things easier for me.  I really should get Jerry Kuhnhausen (sp?) book on Mausers.  The more I think about it the more I think this could be the right project for me.  I think Ill just stick to an 06 based cartridge (or similar sized case.)  My buddy I mentioned above has a custom .270 on  mauser action he had built for him.  I wouldnt mind a .270, but I already have the 06, and they are so similar, ballistically, that Id like to go another route.  I keep mentioning the .35 Whelen, then there is also the .25 06, and so on.  Id like something with big game punch but is still a good tinkering round to reload.  Im sure more questions will pop up.
Thanks,
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Offline New Hampshire

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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2004, 02:01:25 PM »
P.S., Another plus, I just noticed the actions are actually listed for $250 instead of what the ad said was at about $300.  Hmmmm the bulb grows brighter.
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Offline springer222

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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2004, 02:45:31 PM »
I agree with Judson, there is work required. But the ones I have, the triggers have all been good. I have not and will not spend extra money on triggers, as the factory triggers are more than adequate for a hunting rifle (and with proper adjustment to the triggers, a custom built rifle will, with all other work being equal, most likely not be the week link in the accuracy chain).

Offline skippermdj

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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2004, 04:38:26 PM »
Unless you are going to buy the tools and tooling and do many actions, you are definitely money ahead on the Charles Daly action.  
In round numbers, gunsmith charges will be about:
$50 to forge bolt
$30 to drill and tap for scope
$40+installation for a single stage adjustable trigger with Rem700-style safety
$40 for a non-military no-safety bolt shroud
$65 for a sporter-style triggerguard with hinged floorplate

If you add $80 for a Vz24 action you are well over $300.  And the Charles Daly bottom metal is quite a bit better than either the sporterized military items or cast aluminum pieces that you can buy from Numrich or Brownells.  The really nice sporter triggerguard is from Sunnyhill, but it's a $400 piece.  For $250 or even $300, it's really a good deal IMHO.  

I've been told that the Charles Daly actions are a bit rough "out of the box", but Mauser actions are easy to slick up.  

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but Charles Daly says that these are "full size" mauser actions.  Many pre-inletted stocks indicate that they fit Vz24, K98, MarkX/Charles Daly.  These stocks do NOT fit the M48 intermediate length actions.  So I think the previous post that stated these were based on the M48 Yugo action is in error.  They are the same length as the K98 and handle 30-06 length cartridges just fine.

Offline gunnut69

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« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2004, 05:18:26 PM »
skippermdj
I believe the post indicated these were NOT the m48..  These are standard length mausers and commercial variants at that.  They are not as slick as a military 98 that's been cylced 1/2 Million times but they can be worked on.  I can't speak to the quality of the barrels, triggers etc. but I would consider them a good value as a place to start.. The 35 Whelen is a great round.  Fairly easy to load and very effective..  Recoil is brisk but not prohibitive and availability of bullets for the 358 is as good as it'[s ever been..
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Offline New Hampshire

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« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2004, 05:14:36 AM »
Speaking of wood, what are some good sources for semi-inletted stocks?  I have been kinda partial to schnable forends, but I also like the looks of Walnut with a cherry, or maybe black end cap with white spacer.  I was also looking at laminated blanks from Boyds, but I think they are unshaped and require full inletting.  Not to get ahead of myself, but Im starting to put all the ideas together and want to see what kinda wood I can get for the Mauser actions.
Thanks,
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Offline gunnut69

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« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2004, 07:30:29 AM »
Here are some addresses.  A Google search on 'gunstock wood' will find more..----
http://www.rifle-stocks.com/
http://www.gunstocks.com/
http://www.wenig.com/
I've dealt with all and others.  these have some bargains available sometimes....
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Offline Big Paulie

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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2004, 08:38:00 AM »
OK, guys, I read an article about 2 months ago in one of the larger gun magazines (It may have been American Rifleman), testing a new Charles Daley mauser in 30-06.   They pointed out that the actions are a bit rough, AND, that when feeding the 30-06 round, the rifle dented the shoulder of the brass on the top of the round.  The article said that this indicated that the top lip of the chamber was not properly "opened up", and that a good gunsmith could cure this.

Here is my point.  Why buy one of these Charles Daley models, when the prior Interarms Mark X seemed to be a little better finished and polished and didn't have these problems?  The Interarms Mark X were imported on and off for 25 years, and are prettly easy to find if you just look around a little bit.   The entire rifle generally goes for about $325, with the wooden stock.  You can sell the stock for $80.


Just some thoughts.

Big Paulie

Offline gunnut69

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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2004, 01:04:00 PM »
The Mark X's had a spotty reputation for QC also.  A good friend had one built, a 300 Mag, and it appears they used a Beaver to mill out the action.  If a good one can be found they are a good buy, the tune up work on a C.Daly should be easy and produce a good barreled action and still end up a bargain over remodeling a military 98.  The big plus is that one can just order the Daly.  You could even check out the CZ.  They are a bit pricier but they seem to really well made.
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Offline Rogue Ram

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« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2004, 06:32:51 PM »
Do check out the CZ line of Mauser type bolt guns!!! As soon as my pals saw the one I bought they all went and ordered one too.......while I do like playing with sporterizing Mausers, a CZ for the price an FFL dealer can get you one for is well worth it!

RR