Lever half-cock or uncocked safety?

[sport240]

Hi all,

I was reading through the post entitled "Lever actions and accidental discharges" and some of the responses got me thinking as to the best way to walk through the forest with a lever action while hunting or just protecting.  When I am in the backwoods I usually carry my '94's unchambered with the hammer down (un-cocked)...if I see anything interesting I am only one maneuver and half-a-second away from firing a shot by chambering quickly. Sometimes if I move into a more stealthy mode, I will chamber a round and leave the hammer down (un-cocked).  But all the talk about half-cock safety in the "accidental discharge" post got me to thinking....what is the safest set-up? Chambered and half-cocked or chambered and un-cocked (hammer down)?

I have never been a fan of half-cocked levers just because of the mechanicals involved, the hammer being sprung and all...and the possibility than any and all mechanicals will fail someday.  This position is further emphasized by the fact that all my levers are pre-64's, some from the 20's some from the 30's, two made in the 50's, one '61 and another in '72.  These are not NIB models, none have the new "safety's" and for many I am unaware as to previous usage and abusage.....although all are in fine mechanical order.

I tend to prefer a hammer down (un-cocked) carrry position, but then again a fall or jolt could force the pin forward and cause an accidental discharge (right? wrong? unsure...)

Any views on this?

Thanx

Sport240

[KSR]

I agree, I have hunted and carried leveractions for a long time and I
don't chamber a round until I am ready to shoot.
 It is a lot like an old Colt SAA, don't carry it with one under the hammer.

[Blackhawk44]

As per KSR, end of discussion.

[Shorty]

Chambered and half-cocked.  So, sue me.  If your rifle won't hold half cock through a trigger pull or a slam on the hammer... it's BROKE!  

KSR, How about a M1911, carried cocked and locked on a live round?  Scare you to death? :wink:

[John Y Cannuck]

If you want to carry a gun with an empty chamber, it's the safest setup, yes. You will of course give up some game, if you hunt like I do, in close quarters fast action bush.
I would never suggest carrying a gun with the hammer down on a loaded round. The firing pin is resting on the primer, under some force. A fall could make it fire. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near anyone hunting in such an unsafe manner.
I prefer to hunt, when the walking is good, with a round in the chamber, and half cock in use. If I need to cross an obstruction, I can unchamber the round.
I doubt there is sufficient energy to fire from the half cock position even if it did fail, the chances of it failing (while not impossible) are near zero, it is a very strong position. The impact needed to break the half cock would be like hitting it with a heavy hammer, unlikely to happen in a fall. I can cock the hammer faster, and with a whole lot less noise and commotion than I can work the lever.

[CEJ1895]

I hunt with a round in the chamber and the saftey on half cock. I agree with John that the rifle wouldn't go off if dropped 99.9% of the time - can't ever say never though. Also there's also that feature under the levers of Marlin's and Winnies that won't allow the rifle to fire if the lever isn't closed tightly against it. I do use the CRS to unload my Guide Gun, until I can master unloading the rifle from the loading gate. The biggest saftey though is the one between your ears! CEJ..

[azshooter]

If it is a Win 94 AE then you have three safeties.  There is a the lever safety that prevents the trigger from being pulled unless the lever is pulled against the stock, the hammer also has a trigger activated block and either the cross bar or tang safety.  You can VERY safely carry this rifle with a round chambered.  Dropping directly on the hammer will not set it off even with the cross bar safety off.  Personally I have removed the ugly and redundant cross bar safety on mine.


If you have an older lever gun, half cock is still safe because lever must still be depressed just to pull the trigger.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I will call attention to the four rules of gun safety.  NONE of them say anything about how to keep the safety on or hammer down/half-cock.

The best way is to ASSUME you will get an accidental discharge.  Keep the darn thing pointed in a safe direction!!!!!!

Bolt actions are at full-cock and the only "safety" is a little bar that blocks the trigger.  Semi-autos the same way.

Hammer guns offer a half-cock position or a transfer bar.  Use 'em if you want.  But for the most part, arguing over this is silly because you always, always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.  

Handguns are slightly different.  Because of the manner of carrying them, you don't always keep them pointed in a safe direction.  The Colt SAA were pointing into your thigh or at your foot most of the time.  Thus the practice of keeping the hammer on an empty chamber.  

Keep the gun pointed in a safe direction, then A.D.'s are nothing more than a startling reminder to keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

[jackfish]

The only true safety is between your ears!

[NH_Hunter]

When i carry my Marlin 336a or Winchester 94, it is with a round in the chamber and the hammer on half cock. After i chamber a round, i slowly bring the hammer down on the way and the put it in half cock because that is what i was taught in hunter safety.

NH_Hunter

[ScoutMan]

Sport,

You are correct up through stealth mode.

For stealth mode, round in chamber, hammer on half cock, butt of rifle on hip (right handed shooter)barrel just below eye level.

From this position, barrel follows eyes when scanning terrain.

I have also found that if you treat your rifle barrel like a pointer and thrust it towards the vital zone of you target, when you pick up sights, you will be "right on".  Very fast whether ghost ring or scope. It also give you good insurance that the heel of the rifle butt will not catch on your clothing and thus preventing a fast mount.

By the way, thrusting the barrel towards the target is not my ideal. It is what they teach in the basic rifle course at Gunsite Training Center.

[Malamute]

I carry chamber empty, hammer down. If a shot is likely, I carry round chambered, hammer on half cock(lowered all the way, then drawn to half cock). I think it is dangerous to leave a hamer down on a chambered round, an impact or jarring of the gun could fire it.
 

 I DON'T carry chamber empty with the hammer on half cock. The trigger or sear notch in the hammer CAN be broken by a very hard pull on the trigger or an impact on the hammer. If the chamber is empty, there is no reason to have it on half cock, and is inviting breakage if dropped. Certainly not "improving" safety.  I use the hammer condition as a quick chamber staus check. If down, it's empty, if half cock, it's loaded. I've used this method for 25 years or so and had no problems. Most of my guns have been loaded (magazine, not chamber) for as long as I've owned them, unless travelling in a state that doesn't allow transport while loaded. All my levers are standard guns, no rebounding hammer or cross bolt safeties.


The "lever safety" on some guns isn't a true safety. I believe it was designed keep the gun from being fired when the action is unlocked, it would be very unhealthy to fire a round with the gun unlocked. I don't think it should be regarded as a "safety" per se. Blocking the trigger will not neccesarily prevent the gun from firing if the hammer is struck hard enough to shear the half cock notch. Many of the guns with this lever block have a strong enough lever latch to keep the lever all the way up when it's closed, and I think this is as it should be. Winchester 1886's and 1892's don't have this lever "safety", they have a part on the tip of the lever that retracts the firing pin before the locking bolts lower. No "lever safety" was required. Are they "less safe"? I don't feel so.

 As many have said, the most important thing is not ever pointing the gun at anything you don't want to shoot.

[leverfan]

I carry chamber empty, hammer down. If a shot is likely, I carry round chambered, hammer on half cock(lowered all the way, then drawn to half cock).

BIG SNIP

If memory serves, and it may not, Marlin tells users to slowly lower the hammer from full cock into the half cock.  I believe that the manual that I ordered for my 444SS specifically said NOT to lower the hammer all the way, then bring it back up.  I've never owned a new lever gun, so this is the only manual that I've ever read for one, but it agrees with what I was taught.

NH_Hunter, you seem to be using the method that I've learned, and what at least one gun maker recommends.

[Coyote Hunter]

My first levergun was an Ithaca Model 39 or some such - a single-shot .22.  My brothers both had one as well and we always carried chamber loaded and at half-cock.

Many years later Dad gave me his Browning B92 .44 Mag.  Most of the time I carried it chamber empty and at half-cock, loading only if I thought a shot was immanent.  More years later I got a Marlin 375, no cross bolt safety and carried it the same way.

Then two years ago I  got a Marlin .45-70 with the cross bolt safety.  My intent was to carry it the same way and leave the CBS in the "fire" position.   (My first opportunity to get a deer with it was screwed up when my buddy saw the CBS was off and demanded I put it on.  The chamber was loaded as we were stalking to big bucks, and sure enough, I forgot to take it off.  When I squeezed the trigger the rifle went "Clack" and the bucks were off to the races.)

Will continue to use the empty chamber/half-cock as I am familiar with it.