Author Topic: Do I Even Have A Political Party?  (Read 616 times)

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Offline crazyjjk

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Do I Even Have A Political Party?
« on: June 08, 2004, 07:59:45 AM »
These are just my thoughts and I am not looking for an argument, just your thoughts. As time goes on in this country I am beginning to feel less represented by any political party be it Republican, Democratic or what ever. I see elected officials from either party following the money and the power, not the wishes of the people. And what is most frightening is that much of this money and power isn't even from this country. I here on this forum, how we need to vote Republican to save our rights such as the right to bear arms. Anymore I am not so sure. Like I said I see almost all politicians both Republican & Democratic & Conservative & Liberal willing to sell out to the highest bidder, and then justify it through some spin. I see the Patriot Act brought on by Republican's and Conservatives. Anti hunting by Democrats. Gun control by Liberals. The only consistency I see in any political official or political party is follow the money and power. Keep me in office. This frightens me a great deal. Even with the war in Iraq. I support out troops whole heartedly but I wonder if we attacked the right nations. Weren't most of the terrorists from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait? Isn't most of the terrorist money found to come from these two countries. Sometimes I wonder if Iraq just wasn't a diversion to get our attention away from the real terrorists. Gee come to think of it Saudi Arabia, Kuwait lots of power in the form of oil and certainly lots of money. Don't get me wrong I am not anti American as a matter a fact I feel I support the real America. The working people who pay the taxes and  fight for this country, raise families, vote, and volunteer. The people our politicians have lost touch with  Maybe I am just paranoid but I just do not know who to trust anymore. Again just your thoughts no arguments. :?

Offline Loader 3009

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Do I Even Have A Political Party?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2004, 09:43:16 AM »
crazyjjk, I don't think you will get any argument on that post. Just dittos.

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Offline Thomas Krupinski

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Should have none of the above as a ballot choice!
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2004, 09:56:19 AM »
Just because you may be paranoid, that don't mean they ain't out to get you!

I have been sharing those feeling for quite a while, pretty much disgusted with all of the political parties and the bull they are throwing around.  The money talks and that's what they want to hear.  

For all of their self praise over principles, the bottom line in self enrichment is all that they are really interested in.  And will tell you anything you want to hear as long as you will keep them in power and then find some way to justify doing what's against your interests.  They have it worked out pretty well so they can blame each other to all them to do what they really want to do.

I think we would be much better off without political parties, and should have a selection choice on the ballots to chose "none of the above" and force them to pick a better canidates and do the election over.  It would not take them long to find some better canidates.  It's just a shame to have to choose the lesser of two evils.

Offline ironglow

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Do I Even Have A Political Party?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2004, 06:31:54 PM »
First off...we won't be getting rid of political parties. Suppose one party decided (for some strange reason) to disband, all that would do is leave just one super-party....would that be an improvement?
  Suppose they both(even stranger) decided to disband...others would rise up ...different name;.. mostly the same people.
   It costs many millions of $$$ to run a national campaign, so a big organization (party) is needed..
  No way out of the "party" system..because people naturally gravitate toward power centers, whether you call them party, schmarty or rosebud!
  Politicians have to follow the money...because campaigns cost many millions..
  One party is KNOWN to support the 2nd amendment...while the other has opposed it!  not too hard to figure that out...
 
   Much depends upon what you would like our U.S .to look like in 10 or 20 years...
   
  Both Reagan and Bush and the great bulk of their party appreciate the classic America....Faith, family, free enterprise, individualism and America first...

  The Clintons and Teddy along with their great financier Geo Soros Agree with the ACLU on faith issues, have a different definition of family than the traditional family, admire Socialism, believe individualism to be rebellious and think U.N. first...
    The choice here is relatively clear....the U.S. as it has traditionally been or should it be modeled after some European socialist nations...

   Our country is based upon the capitalist "free enterprise" system..
  one party would encourage this activity..
  The other party, being socialistically inspired, wouild heavily tax success...putting the brakes on economic growth...depends upon what you like..

   Terrorism is a disease that has spread throughout the world...but is rooted in the middle east.
  It is not truly known where terrorists get most of their money...perhaps from their myraid  charities and fences right here.

   Of all the nations in the mid-east, only one has been proven to have possessed WMD...and to have used them!
   There was no reason to doubt that they still had them....especially since old S.H. would not allow free inspections.
   How many declarations have been made against Kuwait by the UN? How many "deadlines" have been issued to Saudi Arabia?
  How many of their own citizens have the United Arab Emirates gassed to death?
  Do you really suspect that the kingdom of Oman has hundreds of thousands of their citizens buried in mass murder graves?
  Do you recall the "no fly zones" and how Saddam still ordered our planes fired upon?
   It wasn't Jordan that kicked the UN inspectors out of the country...nor was it G W Bush that let them get "clean away" with it!

  The entire mid-east needs a good taste of democracy...
 
  Now, get out your map of the mid-east....do you see how Iraq is located almost directly in the center of those nations?
   If democracy starts there, it could more easily spread throughout the mid-east.
  If it were rooted in say Bahrain; the other nations there could isolate and contain it.

  No argument...just pointing out a few facts...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Thomas Krupinski

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Do I Even Have A Political Party?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2004, 08:37:52 PM »
First off...we won't be getting rid of political parties. Suppose one party decided (for some strange reason) to disband, all that would do is leave just one super-party....would that be an improvement?
  --There is one now, they just argue among themselves with split tongue.

Suppose they both(even stranger) decided to disband...others would rise up ...different name;.. mostly the same people.
   --Well just who are those people that would rise up to fill in the power vacuum, would it be the same folks who contribute to both political parties to cover all bases and make sure that their interests are the ones protected?

It costs many millions of $$$ to run a national campaign, so a big organization (party) is needed..
  --It costs so much because they waste it on expensive and fancy media tools to constantly bombard you with garbage ads, misinformation, and downright lies, not to educate the voters, but rather to convince you that they have your best interest at heart.  Sure they do.....

No way out of the "party" system..because people naturally gravitate toward power centers, whether you call them party, schmarty or rosebud!   Politicians have to follow the money..because campaigns cost many millions..
  --Sure they do follow the money, but why should they be allowed to?  You are not supposed to be allowed to buy votes, but should it be also allowed to buy politicians?

One party is KNOWN to support the 2nd amendment...while the other has opposed it! not too hard to figure that out...
  --Just part of their tricks, appeal to both sides and then when push comes to shove what finally gets enacted?  Since that one party has both houses of Congress and the Presidency, have you noticed a substantial increase in your second amendment rights?

Much depends upon what you would like our U.S .to look like in 10 or 20 years...

Both Reagan and Bush and the great bulk of their party appreciate the classic America....Faith, family, free enterprise, individualism and America first...

The Clintons and Teddy along with their great financier Geo Soros Agree with the ACLU on faith issues, have a different definition of family than the traditional family, admire Socialism, believe individualism to be rebellious and think U.N. first... The choice here is relatively clear....the U.S. as it has traditionally been or should it be modeled after some European socialist nations...

Our country is based upon the capitalist "free enterprise" system.. one party would encourage this activity.. The other party, being socialistically inspired, would heavily tax success...putting the brakes on economic growth...depends upon what you like..
  --The bottom line is that both parties ignore pressing needs in favor of the special interests they are pandering to.  There are many thing that government can do very well and actually does better than private enterprise, but there are also many things that government should stay out of and leave private enterprise alone to do what it can do best.  What they should be working towards is meeting the pressing needs of the citizens, not lining their pockets with schemes and boondoggles in the name of doing such.

Terrorism is a disease that has spread throughout the world...but is rooted in the middle east.  It is not truly known where terrorists get most of their money...perhaps from their myraid charities and fences right here.   Of all the nations in the mid-east, only one has been proven to have possessed WMD...and to have used them!  
  --Your not referring to the Israeli nuclear program weapons program that they have tested and successfully used as a deterrent to insure their survival?  I don’t think so.  By the way how did Sadam Hussin get into power in the first place?  And by any chance did our government have anything to do with that?  And if so why did it do it?

There was no reason to doubt that they still had them....especially since old S.H. would not allow free inspections.  How many declarations have been made against Kuwait by the UN? How many "deadlines" have been issued to Saudi Arabia?  How many of their own citizens have the United Arab Emirates gassed to death?  Do you really suspect that the kingdom of Oman has hundreds of thousands of their citizens buried in mass murder graves?  Do you recall the "no fly zones" and how Saddam still ordered our planes fired upon?  It wasn't Jordan that kicked the UN inspectors out of the country...nor was it G W Bush that let them get "clean away" with it!  The entire mid-east needs a good taste of democracy...
  --The United Nations is a pathetic organization that is powerless to prevent genocide, public health disasters and a multitude of other plagues that humanity can bring upon itself.  They spout resolution after resolution, and are impotent in everything other than talk.  The problem with the middle east arab countries is that very few, if any of them, have the best interests of their citizens at heart, only the personal enrichment of their leaders.  Unfortunately, we have been responsible for helping this along in the interests of stability.  No wonder this had resulted in contempt.

Now, get out your map of the mid-east....do you see how Iraq is located almost directly in the center of those nations?  If democracy starts there, it could more easily spread throughout the mid-east.  If it were rooted in say Bahrain; the other nations there could isolate and contain it.  

  --That’s not a bad idea, but unfortunately that not the one that was used to sell the country on the invasion.  Removing an evil dictator and his henchmen is a noble, honorable and expensive task.  We made some mistakes in the past in not taking actions in earlier years that would have allowed the people there to remove him, but allowed them to be slaughtered and repressed instead.  Now what about the other dictators with CBR weapons, like North Korea?  

  --Now is the United States particularly unique in political corruption?  Absolutely not, but we can be unique in doing something about addressing it and something about fixing it.

Offline williamlayton

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Do I Even Have A Political Party?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2004, 03:04:24 AM »
We can negate SOME party influence by KNOWING who we vote for other than voting by party affiliation.
Now I would agree that to do this takes a great deal of investigation, other than  just trusting what a guy says. It is a tough call but i have always advocated voting for the man rather than the party.
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Offline ironglow

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Do I Even Have A Political Party?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2004, 01:51:00 AM »
I agree with William here...vote the man (or principle) rather than the party...

   Thomas...yes, I agree that there are other dictators that deserve as much as Saddam Hussein to go down; places such as N. Korea, Cuba and several African dictatorships.
    When discussing the Iraqi situation, often Libs will bring up that fact  (simply as a red herring, I believe).!
 My reply to them is rhetorical...
  Would you then endorse invading N. Korea, Cuba and several African countries???
  They seem not to have a clear answer to that honest question...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Thomas Krupinski

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Do I Even Have A Political Party?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2004, 04:53:11 AM »
Ironglow, don't get me wrong as I am not against the invasion of Iraq.  I am just not in favor of doing it for the stated reasons.  I have no problems doing it as an example to the other countries you mentioned, like bringing down the bully to keep the others in line, where it would have been more difficult to do.  

If Iraq was an imminent threat to our national security and about to attack us with CBR weapons, then a tatical or stragic nuclear response may even have been a preferable cost efficient response.

What I am hoping and expecting our leadership in congress and the executive branches to do is to be open and honest with us.  There are some straight talking people in positions of leadership and they are often at odds with their politial party and it's porkbarrel politics.  I would like for our government to be efficient and practical, and perform in the national interest rather than be motivated by special interest and greed.  I just can't buy the excuse that they are one in the same.

Offline crazyjjk

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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2004, 06:29:00 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Krupinski
Ironglow, don't get me wrong as I am not against the invasion of Iraq.  I am just not in favor of doing it for the stated reasons.  I have no problems doing it as an example to the other countries you mentioned, like bringing down the bully to keep the others in line, where it would have been more difficult to do.  

If Iraq was an imminent threat to our national security and about to attack us with CBR weapons, then a tatical or stragic nuclear response may even have been a preferable cost efficient response.

What I am hoping and expecting our leadership in congress and the executive branches to do is to be open and honest with us.  There are some straight talking people in positions of leadership and they are often at odds with their politial party and it's porkbarrel politics.  I would like for our government to be efficient and practical, and perform in the national interest rather than be motivated by special interest and greed.  I just can't buy the excuse that they are one in the same.


I agree with Thomas whole heartedly. I've also heard people say vote the man not the party. To me that is still hard to do because most of the people in politics did not come from the same world as you or I.  They came from the world of power and money. How do I vote the person? They have no real link to the American working person. I hear that Kerry's a war criminal and Clinton a draft dodger and I am not defending them or one party over the other, but Bush (MIA National Guard) and Cheney (spent war in a Frat House) records are no better and others in the politcal arena are no better. To me they are all the same. All self serving wishy washy puppets who follow the money.  Most of these people never had to really work for a living, and I am sure they as children never had to make decisions like do I mow lawns or carry newspapers so I can save up enough to by a 22 rifle or even help feed my family. Its sad to say I work in an institution where many of these future politicians come from and let me tell you most never have to worry about making ends meet. The biggest decision many of them make is do I take the BMW or the Lexus to school today, or will the maid have the clothes I want ready so I can go out.
It just seems that in politics the terms Conservative, Liberal, Republican and Democrat have all become blurred as beliefs and values of each and the individuals that profess to be associated with these parties flow the way the money and power does. Like I said before the political leaders today come from and live in a entirely different world from you and I.  A world that is far removed from most of the people in working America. I bet you could count on your fingers and have some left over the number of politicians that actually came from blue collar working class America in todays US government.  
The other thing I hear vote Republican because that is the lesser of two evils. To me that is kind of like having to make a choice between not eating or not drinking water. Sooner or later I am going to die from either choice just one is a little quicker than the other.

I sorry but give me a leader who had to grow up working blue coller. Give me a person who sticks to his values without spin doctors or following the money. I just don't think there is anyone in politics today who is that way. And if there is they won't get far because of the way our political system and its politicians be they Liberal, Democratic, Conservative, Republican or what ever have turned it into an exclusive club for the rich and powerful.

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2004, 09:42:15 AM »
Lord are we going to agree on something here. I musta died, yea, i'm dreaming.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD