Made it Official today!

[New Hampshire]

The first shot I fired to cleaer the bbl of the CVA Mountain gun was not really what I would call a real first session with a ML.  It was just one shot and I did not even hit paper.  Well today I made it official.  I went to the gun store, picked up some Pyrodex Select RS, .50 cal patches and Balls, and 100 No 11 caps.  I couldnt wait till this weekend so I went today.  All I can say is WHAT FUN  :grin: !  I decided just to get a feel for the gun so I loaded up just 90 grains of powder.  The first shot went BOOM and surprisingly the new sights I put on there were on the small (8"x11 1/2") paper target.  So I will need to fine tune some.  I did have a bit of a problem on the second shot.  The hammer fell and the cap did not go off (I was using the set trigger.)  It fell the second time.  I had it happen on the third shot too.  But it stopped doing it on the fourth fith and sixth shot.  I pushed my luck on number 7.  I had been picking my nipple to clean it every shot.  But I guess the vent hole was not clear enough cauz I popped off two caps (after waiting 2 minutes between each,) and the charge did not fire.  So I disassembled the cleaning screw and nipple and picked at the vent hole.  I poped off another cap with no results.  Thankfully the second cap fired the charge.  I decided not to push my luck.  The patch and ball were still going right into the bbl just fine (I was using T/C patches pre-lubed with bore butter.)  I was amazed.  But I gave up cuz I did not want to have another charge fail to go off.  The only part that sucked was I forgot my hearing protection  :oops: .  But I was again surprised.  The report is not that bad, nothing like a High powered rifle  :eek: !  Well Ive got to go do some cleaning now  :-D .  
Brian M.

[Thomas Krupinski]

Brian, I am getting a little confused in your description of the problem.  Was it that the caps were not firing, was it that the caps were firing and not igniting the powder charge, or both?

I don't particularly care to use Pyrodex as it has a lower ignition tempature than real black powder.

Usually when I am working with a new rifle I will run a patch down the bore to clean between shots, then pop a cap with the muzzle pointed into the dust to make sure there is flame through to the bore.  If  it's clear you can see the dust move.  

What could happen is when you clean between shots you can push some crud back blocking the primer channel.

[New Hampshire]

The very first time the cap did not go off.  It required a second strike to fire.  Then the last shot I fired the caps DID go off, but not the powder charge.  I was not cleaning between shots, just picking the nipple.  Thats why I think the last shot I tried to fire just had the vent plugged up.  I chalk it up to me trying to get as many shots off without a proper cleaning.

But now that Im done cleaning I got a few questions.  I picked up Hornady balls and when I opened them up it dawned on me that theirs are swaged.  So no sprue.  So does it matter what position I place them in the bore?  I know your supposed to go sprue up with normal balls, but does it matter with the swaged balls?
The next is a powder horn question.  I tried filling the powder horn I have.  It was real tough getting the powder in, and when it was it did not want to come out very easy at all.  I had to tap real hard just to geta small amount of kernals to come out.  The Pyrodex Select RS is supposed to be an FFG equivelant, but does this mean the grain size is too big to meter properly?  Cant figure it out.
Thanks,
Brian M.
P.S. I did pop a cap off before loading the clean bbl to make sure there was no obstructions.  I think the first problem might have been the gun.  The last probelm Im almost positive was just plain dirty conditions.

[Thomas Krupinski]

If the cap is not going off, and assuming that the caps are not contaminated like primers can be, you may want to check the strike of the hammer to see if it is properly hitting the cap on the nipple.

Those Hornady round balls (as well as those Lee round balls that cast without a sprue, that we spoke of on another thread) can be loaded any direction they go down.  The sprue, when it is there, is positioned on top as it is easier to get down that way.

I have had a powder horn that was not properly finished and the channel was not big enough for the powder.  I had to ream it out to get an adequate pour.  On some horns you can take the wood or bone cap off and fill from the large end.

I hope you are pouring from the horn into a powder measure and not directly into the bore.

[New Hampshire]

Profesor Fadala educated me well.  Right into a measure then into the bore.  What I cant understand is that if you pour right from the powder horn into the bore how do you know you have metered the proper weight?  Just seems like pure common sense that from the horn into the bore is not smart.

I took a flashlight and noticed that there is some kind of obstruction in the horns channel.  Ill try and remove it.  I was thinking about getting a powder horn kit anyways from Crazy Crow trading post.  They sell infinished kits and I thought it might be a neat and quick project.

Thanks again,
Brian M.

[New Hampshire]

Fixed the powder horn.  It was skin like flakes that had clogged the spout.  I ran a drill bit in there back and forth a bunch of times.  It shaved off the skin and cleared the clog.  Its now flowing real nice.
Brian M.

[AndyHass]

BEFORE you shot the gun, what condition was the bore put in.  What I mean is, did you clean/oil it after your last use?  I used to shoot Pyrodex out of a caplock, and the #1 cause of misfires was oil in the bore or under the nipple.  I would always run a dry swab down the bore, then remove the nipple and use a Qtip to make sure the snail was dry.  
   In all my years shooting that gun, I NEVER had a misfire that I could attribute to the higher ignition temperature of Pyrodex.  It is much more likely that the bore was contaminated wil oil or some other cleaning agent.  Also, if the cap did not go off once, you might have a bum batch of caps.  That or, as someone mentioned, make sure your hammer is squarely contacting the nipple.

[New Hampshire]

I have not used oil on this gun.  The outside is protected with TW25B as well as on the nipple threads and clean out screw.  Inside the bore I swabbed it down with Bore Butter.  Only two caps out of the 10 or more used failed to go off the first time.  They DID go off on a second strike.  I cant remember if both times the caps failed I was using the set trigger.  I know the first time I was, but not sure about the second time.
Brian M.

[Thomas Krupinski]

Brian, I only use Bore Butter with mine and don't like to use petroleum based stuff.  Others like it, but I haven't had any problems with what I have been doing.  

You may just need to break in that lock some.  Here is suggestion to dry fire that hammer without pounding your nipple into extinction.  Take a soft round ball and punch a cavity into it and place that over the nipple.  Drop the hammer on that.  You may have to cut the ball in half or so to make it smaller and fit.

[Trapper-Jack]

Brian,
I have had several rifles that have had a problem with the cap needing two hammer falls befor it would go off.  Most of these have been either one of, or a combination of 1) weaker than usual mainspring, and 2) a nipple that has a taper thick enough that the cap is starting onto the tip of the nipple but is not bottoming out due to the skirt of the cap.  What could be happening is that the cap is not bottoming out on the nipple and the first hammer fall is seating the cap fully onto the nipple and the second hammer fall is igniting it.  If this is happing only once in ten shots, you will find that as the shooting session progresses, it will become more frequent due to fouling on the outside of the nipple making the cap harder to fully seat.  A cheap fix for this would be to 1) chuck the nipple in a drill and spin some of the taper out of the nipple using a file or sand paper, making it easier for the cap to seat fully down.  This should also put a smoother finish on the outside of the nipple, also making it easier for the cap to seat.   2) Switch to a different brand of caps.  I've noticed that some caps will have a tighter skirt on them than others, even though they are #11's.  In my experience the old Remington #11 caps, now hard to find in this part of the country, had a partial split in the bottom of the skirt that made them seat easier onto the nipple,  CCI #11 caps dont have that split and will not seat as far onto the nipple, and the CCI #11 Magnums seem to have a little tighter skirt than the regular #11's.  If the main spring is a little on the weak side, it could be replaced with a stronger one that will swedge the cap onto the nipple and ignite it consistantly in one hammer fall.
AndyHass has given you some good advice to check the area under the nipple and in the snail/drum.  The CVA rifles that I have had apart, not Mountain Rifles but St. Louis Hawkens, have had a long flash channel so there is ample opertunity for oil or other cleaning products to settle there, especially if the rifle is stored butt down.
These are just some of my thoughts on your problem.  Take them for what they are worth to you.

[New Hampshire]

The caps I was using were CCIs.  Its entirely possible (considering this was my first real shooting session with a BP rifle,) that I was not entirely seating the cap on the nipple.  I am still getting used to using everything, and perhaps I did not seat it well enough with the capper I had.  I have an old nipple that was origionally on the gun when I got it.  It is all chewed up (looks like the previous owner used pliers to remove it at one time.)  So I can use that to dry fire a bit.
Brian M.

[Winter Hawk]

I would also suspect that the cap isn't getting down all the way on the nipple, and that the first hammer strike is pushing it down.  If the old nipple works well, you might want to take some emery cloth or wet/dry sandpaper and turn the new nipple down a touch.  Be careful not to overdo it though; you don't want the caps falling off, either.

If it isn't the nipple, check to see if the hammer is dragging against anything.  I picked up a Cabela's rifle cheap because it wouldn't fire reliably.  The hammer had been bent over just a skosh and was rubbing against the stock.  Putting it in the padded vice and giving it a tap with a hammer took care of the problem.

-WH-

[jgalar]

Before I take any of my muzzleloaders or cap and ball pistols out to shoot I swab them out with denatured alcohol then blow them out with an air compressor. Since I do this and clean up with soapy water I use regular gun oil.

If I swab between shots I will do so after the powder and ball have been seated, BUT BEFORE CAPPING. At first thought this proceedure sounds dangerous, but it is no more so than seating the ball in the first place. Any crud dislodged does not clog up the nipple. If the area of the barrel that the ball and powder reside start to get really fouled after many shots I will swab the whole barrel and put the gun up and shoot another to make sure any moisture is gone before trying to fire it again. I seldom have to clean the whole barrel while shooting.