knight disc extreme, t/c encore,or t/c omega

[supermag 445]

Hey guys I am new to Black powder as I don't own one yet but just went through the course in NJ and passed so I will be BP hunting this fall.  Well my 10th anniversary is coming up in august and I am getting a BP rifle so what is your opinions on these three?


I was all set on getting a t/c encore but have read a lot of people say that you have to shoot under 100gr of t7 in order to get good groups.  I don't like that idea I like shooting hotter loads.  So what is all your opinions


Brian

[grouse]

Who told you that? :-D Here is a group from my Encore.

[supermag 445]

grouse, thanks for the reply.  Have you tried any 150 gr charges yet in your encore and how was your results?

I really like the 209x50 and am this close to choosing it :-D .


Brian

[Underclocked]

Take it easy!!!  :eek:  I suggest you start at about 80 grains and work your way up slowly in ANY of those rifles.  You may be surprised at the results.  150 grains may sound glorious but I think you will find a level of comfort and greater accuracy well below that charge.

I don't know of a critter in the wilds of New Jersey that couldn't be cleanly taken with 70 grains of powder.

[whitfang]

I sure like my Encore rifle and pistol - I don't think you can go wrong with T/C.  Also consider that you can buy barrels to make your Encore into a lot of different centerfire rifles and pistols.

If you can shoot 100gr instead of 150gr, and be accurate and still kill your target, then Why Not?  It's cheaper and you'll reduce our dependence on foreign ... er, sulfur or something.  

Knight makes fine and accurate rifles, but to me the whole Disc concept has never been a positive selling point.  As somebody pointed out, if you lose or forget your Discs, that gun won't be shooting at all.  And I've never had a 209 primer fail (in any rifle) because it got wet.

If you like a challenge, get the Encore 209x50 pistol, and shoot 100gr of pyrodex or BP with a 300gr sabot.  It makes a big bang and has lots of kick!

[AndyHass]

This is my OPINION...all are fine guns and the top of the heap.
    I have never shot an Elite, but I have heard from a variety of people that own them that they probably have a slight edge in out-of-the-box
accuracy.  However, whether you are shooting .7 or .9 inch groups really doesn't matter if your primary objective is hunting.  I too am not a huge fan of the Disc concept; it is the sole reason I have never even considered a Knight.  
    I know a decent number of people with the Encore.  While it can be a very accurate gun, this is the one that I have seen the most people struggle with.  To start with, the barrel taper means you need to get a special set of rings to get the scope correctly mounted and zeroed without using up all the scope's internal adjustment.  Additionally, there seems to be a problem with the hinge pin on the mechanism.  Mr. Epp at Precision Rifle has a page on this problem, and a good friend of mine thinks he is currently having the same problem.  Groups will mysteriously move around the paper for no apparent reason.  It is a fine rifle and can be extremely accurate, but when I was recently in the market all of the problems I've heard of soured me to it.  Additionally, individual guns of all models vary and I too have seen the high-charge accuracy problems.  This friend's Encore will shoot 85 grains and 220 DC bullets .5-.75 MOA, but 90 grains are 2" groups and forget 100.  He has tried a large selection of bullets with similar results.  Other people's Encores may be different.
    I actually just bought a thumbhole Omega recently.  It had a stock defect, so it has been back to the factory twice and I finally ended up with a new stock...but because of this I've only put 8 rounds through it.  However, the only two I shot without adjusting the scope went through the EXACT same hole.  I can't say about shooting high charges through an Omega because I haven't yet, but I have heard some like it hot.  Partly it's the luck-of-the-barrel.  I don't quite like the way the action mounts in the stock; when I got it the barrel was partly free-floating but bound on one side.  But if I was careful tightening the action screws, I could get it centered and fully free-floated.  So I'll always have to be careful to get it in perfectly when I pull it out or it could change things.
    Never give up on a gun right away.  I had a Traditions that shot like crap for the first 200 rounds, then it became a sub-1" gun.  It had a limit of 100 grains with most every bullet, but the 250 grain SST would go sub-1" at 135 grains 777.

[big6x6]

I guess it depends on what you're looking for.

I have SEVERAL Knight rifles; a Wolverine 209 .50, Disc Elite .50, and a Disc Extreme .50.  I'm not crazy about the "Disc" concept either.  But the Knights ARE good shooters, 100% reliable, and Knight DOES have excellent customer support.  

I have used/shot my Disc Extreme extensively, more than any other.  It's not my most accurate gun OR the easiest to clean.  I just have confidence in it and the 260gr Platinum Tip it likes.  It's not a 1 inch gun.  But it will put them in 1.5-2.0 inches all day long.  That's good enough for 95% of any hunting senerios.

I bought my Disc Elite .50 for that 5% that isn't covered by the Disc Extreme.  I bought this gun mainly for an antelope hunt this coming October.  This gun doesn't have iron sights and that may be a problem for you.  This sucker IS a true 1 inch gun.  It wil shoot 1 inch groups with a couple of loads and less than 1.5 inch with several loads.
QT 250gr .98 inch average
http://photos.imageevent.com/chill6x6/muzzleloaderpics/websize/new50discelite%20007.jpg
SST 250gr 1.33 inch average
http://photos.imageevent.com/chill6x6/muzzleloaderpics/websize/new50discelite%20012.jpg
STT 200gr .96 inch average
http://photos.imageevent.com/chill6x6/muzzleloaderpics/websize/new50discelite%20009.jpg
Barnes 245gr 1.53 inch average
http://photos.imageevent.com/chill6x6/muzzleloaderpics/websize/new50discelite%20010.jpg

Lets talk about the Disc/full plastic jackets themselves.  It IS time comsuming to prime these things.  I almost always prime 200 at a time using needlenose pliars and always seem to rub a blister on my hand. One other thing to consider is cost.  Consider they are $8.00 a hundred.  Heck, PRIMERS are only $2.50 a hundred!  That makes 100 209s ready to shoot in a Knight full plastic jacket gun $10.50 a hundred!  

Then there's the Omega.  Mine is ALMOST a 1 inch gun.  It is consistantly a 1.25 to 1.5 inch gun with a LOT of loads.  I think I can get the Omega to shoot 1 inch consistantly and I am going to work at it.  I do have to ask myself "WHY?"  What will a 1.0 inch gun DO that a 1.5 inch gun WON'T?  In a hunting senerio, absolutely NOTHING!  Another thing to consider is there isn't anything out there easier to clean.  Breechplug and barrel, that's it.  Also the Omega is extremely scope friendly.  No primer residue to ruin the finish of your scope.  Mount your Zeiss Conquest or VX-III with the same confidence you would with a centerfire.

When it's all said and done, I don't think you'll fine a more accurate, more user friendly  muzzleloader than the T/C Omega.

[SURVEYOR]

Chuck,

Very well put. Refreshing to hear such true words reguarding groups and hunting rifles.

I my self shoot a White Whitetail Hunter G Series Mod. M97. But if I were to be in the market for a new muzzle loader it would have to be the T/C Omega for all the same reasons Chuck stated, and for it's over all short lenght.

When people ask my advice on a new ML'ing rifle it's almost always the Omega.

Jules J.

[RandyWakeman]

knight disc extreme, t/c encore,or t/c omega


Something has to be said about what fits you the best, and whether you want a break-action, a hammer gun, or a bolt action style.

The Knight Elite has a better composite stock, recoil pad, and-- a tapered barrel w/ no iron sights. You can also get a free trigger adjustment from the factory. The T/C guns are the most popular American muzzleloaders made today-- Thompson still can't make them fast enough. One gun "experience" does not mean a whole heck of a lot-- but my Omega shot 1-1/4" out of the box, my Encore better than 1", and my Knight Elite 1/2 moa. All of them will ruin Bambi's day.

All three guns will shoot heavy enough bullets and heavy enough powder charges to satisfy most that enjoy high recoil levels-- if that is a goal of sorts.

[whitfang]

If you're leaning towards the Encore 209x50,  there's another detail to consider;  because of it's ability to convert to centerfire, you cannot have a 209x50 shipped direct to you; it must go through a FFL dealer.  

You will not be able to mailorder complete Encores (of any type) at Cabelas, Basspro, Dicks, Gander Mtn, Midsouth, etc.  Most of them do carry the barrels, stocks, forends and other parts.  Natchez Shooters Supply (natchezss.com) does sell complete guns.

If you're buying it direct from a dealer in your area, then it's no problem.  But if you want to search the internet to find a good price, it complicates the deal a little.

[Underclocked]

Just checked the New Jersey regs online and was surprised to find their brochure hosts lots of advertisements.  First time I've seen that.   Not relevant to this discussion, but I thought it to be interesting.

[supermag 445]

Thanks so much for all your opinions. I am all the more interested and confused but I do have some time.  Thanks again and all opinions re very helpful and will keep you posted.


Brian

[whitfang]

T/C makes another modern inline muzzleloader called the Black Diamond XR.  It handles up to 150gr of powder, uses 209 primers, and I've read (on this forum) that it uses the same barrel as the Encore and Omega.  

Basspro still has the camo stock/blued barrel Black Diamond XR on sale for $200, which is a good price!  

I don't know if you've priced the Encore and Knights, but they are some fairly expensive rifles.  Remember that you'll still have to buy caps, sabots, powder, capper, powder flask, starter, powder measure, cleaning supplies and more.  I would have bought this Black Diamond if it had been on sale when I was looking!

[SURVEYOR]

T/C makes another modern inline muzzleloader called the Black Diamond XR.  It handles up to 150gr of powder, uses 209 primers, and I've read (on this forum) that it uses the same barrel as the Encore and Omega.  

Basspro still has the camo stock/blued barrel Black Diamond XR on sale for $200, which is a good price!  

I don't know if you've priced the Encore and Knights, but they are some fairly expensive rifles.  Remember that you'll still have to buy caps, sabots, powder, capper, powder flask, starter, powder measure, cleaning supplies and more.  I would have bought this Black Diamond if it had been on sale when I was looking!

You know, that really is a good price!

Jules J.

[Redhawk1]

I have tried several different muzzleloaders (inline) and I stayed with the Encore. My son liked mine so much, we got rid of his Knight and got him a Encore. I will only use my  Encore (inline) and not look back. I do have a T/C Renegade I love also. But you wanted to know about inlines.  IMHO the Encore is a hard gun to beat.

[Sourdough]

Love My Encore!  As long as I can hit a 4" pie plate at 200 yards with 150gr of Pyrodex, an a .458 .45cal 300gr bullet, I'm happy.  That takes care of Caribou, and Moose.  I also took two nice whitetail with it in Tennessee last Dec.  The .338 barrel works great for Grizzly.  and the 30-06 barrel is great for Black Bears, and Wolves.  Being able to change barrels makes it really versital.

[Walker]

Is the Disc Extreme available with sights???