winchester 32 spl questions...

[lubbockdave]

"32 spl Winchester, all screws present, Lyman sight attached to the side,serial number 2296671, bore is great, 20" barrel, wood is real nice with most of its original finish and no major dings"

--what is a fair price for a gun with this description?

and...what can you do with a 32 spl? hunt deer...hogs...elk...moose???

Thanks

Dave

[Malamute]

Dave, what model of Lyman sight? If a model 66, then about average value. The going rate for late pre-64 model 94's is in the $275 to $425 range, depending on condition.

 You can do about the same things you can do with a 30/30. the bullet weight is the same, the velocity is very close.  It (they) are good deer and black bear guns, some people use them for larger game, and with some success, but for the average hunter, deer and black bear is a good size to stop at. 32 spl ammo is harder to find and a little bit more expensive. If you reload, it doesn't make much difference in cost, tho components are not as easy to find. I think it is a good round, and has been unfairly critisized in the past. The "common knowledge" has been that 32 spl's will become wildly inaccurate with the slightest wear in the barrel. The latest issue of Cartridges of the World book has shown that to be untrue.

[WD45]

Now I may be thinking of another cartridge but I believe I have read somewhere that the accuracy problem stemed from the factory ammo being loaded with bullets of incorrect diameter resulting in OK accuracy for a new gun but poor accuracy from a barrel that has seen some use giving people the impression that the barrel was worn out .... I cant remember all the details... Maybe someone else here can add or detract if need be... Where did I read that anyhow  ?

[tony212]

Boy, its been a long time since I have seen one of those......Used to have a friend who used one all the time.  If my memory is correct about the only thing different between a .30-30 and a .32 special is the rate of twist.  I don't remember exactly but I think the .32 was designed to shoot cast bullets and therefor had a different twist than the .30-30.  Other than that they are pretty much ballisticly twins.  Seems the .32 was the preferred rifle of trappers who liked the cast bullets because they wouldn't do as much damage to pelts as jacketed bullets but they needed a different twist than jacketed bullets to stabalize them. Like I said its been a long time and my memory might not be exact on this one. If someone out there knows about this I would be interested to know If I'm right. Thanks;
Tony212

[Lawdog]

lubbockdave,

As "Malamute" said, "You can do about the same things you can do with a 30/30. the bullet weight is the same, the velocity is very close." except get ammo as in many places it is getting hard to find.  Accuracy is usually good, in my .32 it is very good.  Although my .32 has a longer barrel I like the .32.  It was very popular in Canada, even more than it was here in the U.S..  If you like it, get it and hang on to it as it is going to increase in value.  Lawdog
 

[Gatofeo]

A couple of warnings about the .32 Winchester Special.
I have a Winchester Model 94 in .32 WS, purchased new by my father about 1940. It's in very good shape and I reload for it on occasion.
But two things to remember:
1. Never EVER neck up .30-30 brass to make .32 Winchester Special brass. It's not dangerous to do so, but sooner or later that .30-30 marked case with a .32-caliber bullet will find its way into someone's .30-30 chamber.
Now, most .30-30 chambers will not allow a .32 bullet into them, but there are plenty of older, worn or sloppy-chambered .30-30 chambers around that just might. And a .32-caliber bullet down a .30-caliber bore is a recipe for disaster.

2. When you buy new brass, size it. Actually, I've always sized new brass from the factory, whatever the caliber. That way, I'm assured it's within specifications.
After sizing new .32 WS brass, ALWAYS check it for length. For many years, the factories have had a bad habit of releasing new .32 WS brass that is longer than is considered maximum. I learned this 30-plus years ago, when I started reloading with a Lee Loader.
The .32 WS was the first cartridge I ever loaded, and the first cartridge for which I ever cast my own bullets. It has a soft spot in my heart.
It's easy to reload and will do the job on deer and bear with proper bullet placement.
I knew an old man in British Columbia years ago that killed many moose, deer and beer with a Marlin in .32 WS. He stalked close and put the bullet where it needed to be. He never fired at more than 100 yards.
The old .32 may be laughed at,but it's not to be sneezed at. It will still get the job done --- and do it with a heckuva lot more class than the latest .237 Loudenboomer.

[unspellable]

In 1894 the Winchester Model 1894 was introduced with the 38-55 as the primary chambering.  In 1995 the 30-30 cartridge was introduced as the first civilian smokeless rifle cartridge in the US.  At this time smokeless powder was not generally available to the reloader and where it was available was not very well understood.  The typical reloader used black powder and cast bullets.  This sort of load very rapidly fouled the barrel in the 30-30 as well as having a tendency for the bullet to skip the rifling.

Some where in the 1903 to 1906 bracket the 32 Winchester Special was introduced.  The cartridge was intended from the start to be loaded with smokeless at the factory and reloaded with black powder and a cast bullet.  This was accomplished with the larger bore, slower twist, and minor differences in the grrove width and depth.  Of course all the real differences here are in the rifle rather than the cartridge.

The term "Special" as used in the US denotes a cartridge designed and intended to be loaded with either black or smokeless powder.  So far as I know, we have only three, the 32 Special, the 38 Special, and the 44 Special.  The latter two came factory loaded with both black and smokeless.  We probably didn't get any more than that because smokeless powder very quickly dominated the market.

[Lawdog]

Gatofeo,

1. Never EVER neck up .30-30 brass to make .32 Winchester Special brass. It's not dangerous to do so, but sooner or later that .30-30 marked case with a .32-caliber bullet will find its way into someone's .30-30 chamber.

Necking up brass from one caliber to another is an very old common practice done everyday.  Example is the .30-06 to be made into cartridges like the .338-06, .35 Whelen, etc..  I have, in a pinch, necked up .270 Win. to .280Rem. because of being short of brass.  Most reloaders don’t sell/give away re-necked brass in loaded ammo.  Necking up .30-30 brass to .32 Win. Spec. is a common practice.  I won both a .30-30 and a .32 Sp. and I remark the necked up brass so I know at a glance what I have grabbed.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 

[unspellable]

Around here I pick up 32 Special ammo at gun shows so cheap it's hardly worth thinking about reloading let alone worrying about necking up 30-30 brass.

But two questions come to mind.

Nobody I've heard of has loaded the 32 Special with black powder since Hector was a pup.  Why didn't Winchester increase the twist rate to match the 30-30?

Some are saying the ammo is getting hard to find.  Do we need to worry about this?  There must be a million 32 Specials out there, are they all closet queens?

[Geno]

I'm surprised no one has checked the "Cartridges of the World". 9th edition, page 65. "Introduced in 1902 for the Winchester Model 1894 lever action, the 32 Special was an original smokeless powder design.".......(in comparison to the 30/30) "Today, it is still loaded to higher velocity, and if loaded to equal pressure, it easily beats the 30/30 by over 100fps." ......"There has been a mountain of bunk written about the 32 Special answering the demand of handloaders who wanted to use black powder."....."Much ink has also been spilled claiming the 32 Special just wouldn't shoot straight after the barrel got a bit of wear. I have experimented with two 32 Special carbines, a very early Winchester and a 1936 Marlin. With bullets that fit, both shoot inside 3 inches at 100 yards with open sights. The Winchester had been so abused that it's rifling hardly showed until we thoroughly cleaned it. The bore is pitted but it shoots just fine."

Well, I'm no big fan of the 30/30 or 32 Win Special, but my experiences show it to be a nice round, with a slight edge over the 30/30. If you have one, use it, enjoy it.

[unspellable]

The 32 Special was a dual purpose design, intended to be factory loaded with smokeless and reloaded with BP.  That's the meaning of the "Special" designation.  One assumes it was meant to be reloaded with a cast bullet because of the slow twist and as that was what most reloaders had available at the time.  Other wise there is no explanation for the slow twist.  I have heard various dates for its introduction ranging from 1902 to 1906.

The standard bullet weight in both the 32 Special and the 30-30 has been 170 grains since before my time.  The 32 has a lower sectional density.  It will have a slight edge over the 30-30 out to 120 yards or so, at longer ranges the 30-30 will have a slight edge due to less velocity loss.  really not much difference between one or the other at any range.  The M1984 is most often in the form of a a carbine with iron sights and as such is not a 300 yard proposition.

The only 32 Special I've ever messed with has a good bore so I can't speak to the stories about whether the accuracy holds up or not with a bad bore.

As for Cartridges of the World, I have learned the hard way that it has a good deal of misinformation and missing information.  Not that I'm knocking it, it was a monumental effort.  I've learned this the hard way by having to track down a few cartridges that are not listed in it.  As for misinformation, I shoot the 400-360 2-3/4 inch Nitro Express.  Just about everything you see about this cartridge in Cartridges of the World, The Handbook of Cartridge Conversions, etc. is just plain dead wrong, wrong, wrong.  Cartridges of the World is missing two entries for US Army issue pistol cartridges, both of which were first line issue in their day but have some how fallen through the cracks since.

Count the number of British sporting rifle cartridges in Cartridges of the World.  I have a book devoted to the British Sporting rifle cartridge.  It has more entries per page than Cartridges of the World and it's just as thick.  Cartridges of the World lists perhaps 5% to 15% of all the British sporting rifle cartridges depending on how you want to count them.

[hiram]

I have a nice load worked up for the 32 with WW748 for jacketed bullets.  I became interested in casting and ordered a mould from NEI.  It has 2 cavities, a RN and a FP.  Weights are about 200 and 190, gas check design.  works very well with 14.5 gr of 4227 and a little polyester filler.  I would do it again with a lighter RN bullet(to be shorter) --I have to seat it deep to chamber and the base extends below the neck.  The FN is good. :grin:

[unspellable]

Mkae sure that round nose isn't too round nosed.  You will have the point against the primer of the cartridge in front of it in the magazine.

On this subject, the last 32 Special factory loads I bought had the flat nosed Silver Tip in them.  I just bought a couple of boxes of 30-30's and they had a lead pointed round nose in them.  Has the Silver Tip disappeared in the 30-30 and 32 Special?  What happened to the flat point.  Are we getting a little less religious about this?