Author Topic: What happened to the predjudice post?????  (Read 1223 times)

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Offline jh45gun

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« on: June 23, 2004, 01:07:47 PM »
I do not know what happened to the predjudice post but it was a honest question and I answered it and explained on a custom gun that I am building that is a bit of both. I do not appreciate posting a long post just to have the thread removed. Unless some one got abusive after I posted? I posted after the origional post. Jim
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline lostid

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2004, 02:25:11 PM »
who's predjudice about what?

 heck jd45gun your a "moderator" I'm just  a little bitty reader, I share what I can when I can and that's about it.,cain't you take your issue about your post to the owner of the board? I mean really,,how can anyone responde to this?? Why is it even here to read??

What's up with this kinda post?? from a moderator??
i'm a realist. i've not seen it all, but man ,,I've Been Around the block once or twice

Offline jh45gun

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2004, 03:13:03 PM »
Lostid, The person who posted the thread knows what I am talking about and maybe Bill or who ever deleted it. It was not my post to begin with I just responded to it but I wrote a fairly lengthy post was expecting a reply and the post was erased I just want to know why? No Harm in asking. As far as being a moderator goes it gives me the leverage to moderate my own sites not any one elses.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline crow_feather

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2004, 03:59:20 PM »
jh45gun,

I apologize for deleting your post. I was asked to handle the matter in private on the moderator's forum and not bring the issue in front of everyone.  I realize how frustrating it is to have a post deleted after you worked hard and long on it.  That is what started the whole thread in the first place.  I have had three posts deleted in one day and I put over two hours of work into them.  Once again, I apologize.  

C F
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline crow_feather

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2004, 04:37:42 PM »
jh45gun,

To try to answer your question.  We once discussed what was Traditional and really came up with no set answer. I won't even try to define Traditional for this forum but I will tell you what I think is Traditional.  

I believe that Traditional means equipment that was made with the then available tools in the time period prior to cartridge rifles, and that equipment was considered a standard piece of equipment in it's day.

If you build a rifle that resembles a rifle made by one of the various gunsmiths prior to the entrance of cartridge rifles, and it's source of ignition is what was available prior to the invention of cartridge rifles, and  it is designed to use is black powder, whether or not black powder is used, and it is designed to shoot what was available to be shot in the time period it represents, then it is probably Traditional.

People will say, What about those rifles that are sidelock but don't resemble etc etc etc. People who want to shoot a traditional rifle and do not have the money to buy a Lyman or a T/C and have to settle for the best they can with what they have are people that are Traditional in their heart, and they can sit at my Traditional table anytime.

If you build a rifle designed to shoot sabots or other modern bullets, it may be a sidelock, but I wouldn't consider it Traditional.

Well, that is my 2 pennies.  I'm sure there are better explanations, but that is the best that I can come up with and still keep it simple.

C F
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline lostid

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2004, 04:59:34 PM »
you moderator boy's spend way too much tyme on the puter, :D

 buy some sun block,,go outside, it's "summer" now :-D
i'm a realist. i've not seen it all, but man ,,I've Been Around the block once or twice

Offline jh45gun

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2004, 06:27:29 PM »
Thanks for the reply Crow-feather now I know and yea I do not blame you for doing what you had to do. Now I know the reason. I would guess my guns will be more of a traditional flavor depending on lock style. Since the underhammer is a older design I guess it would be  more traditional and it will wear a peep sight yet that is a older design also so who knows? I will post pics when done. Might be a while but I am getting there. Jim
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Glanceblamm

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2004, 03:34:09 AM »
I too, had a few paragraphs in reply to what I thought was an honest question. Still have them "penned" but will let it rest.

I like Crow-feathers opinion about Traditional Equip Made With Tools Avalible At The Time. This hits common sense on the head and is the standard for shoot's that I attend.

Offline S.S.

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2004, 09:20:11 AM »
I got into this debate a long time ago and we Gnawed upon the
solution until we found something we agreed upon!
We used the History Time-line and overall distribution to find the only
common ground!
(What was in the most common usage and When)

First firearms were "primitive" this was to include only things such as the
Matchlock and hand cannons as they were the only really primitive
firearms!  

"Traditional" (Golden age) era included The flintlock, Snap-Haunce(sp) type weapons and the early percussion type weapons. I refer to this as the Golden age because this was the period of time when men were really striving to make advances in firearms but industry/technology had not caught up!
Therefore they were still basically hand made Ideas that were sometimes
truely a work of art created by a true artisan! There were Multiple other types of locks,(Wheel lock for instance) but they were not nearly as widely distributed as these others.

Most people will agree that the totally self contained Cartridge firing
weapons would be considered "Modern". This also follows the Timeline
as when industry truely evolved and things could begin to be mass produced. Therefore, the "TRADITIONAL WAY" of making firearms
ended here.  Therefore anything after this period of time should
be considered a modern development right?. Well, Maybe.
Most people consider the In-line as modern! Nope, the concept
pre-dates the percussion cap so that arguement cannot be the case!

We tried using the way the weapon was loaded as a method to separate
the Moderns from the Primitives , Well, Powder first then Projectile
goes in the muzzle end. Pellet or loose powder, Cloth or plastic patch/sabot around the projectile, Then ram it down!
The principle is the same!

The only ways we came up with to seperate "Modern" and "Traditional"
was in the Things you add on and use with it, Not the actual muzzle loading weapons themselves. I had come to the realization that my
friends "Modern In-line" really annoyed me for one simple reason!
"IT HAD A SCOPE" It really wasn't the rifle at all. My sidelock fired
just as positively, Didn't weigh a whole lot more, was the same caliber
and SMOKED JUST AS MUCH when I Squeezed the trigger! But that
SCOPE, That &%^* SCOPE just didn't seem right! We decided that the
only way that we could agree was to think of something that made one really stand out from the other! The only thing we came up with was the sights.  He still likes his In-line with scope, I like my Side-lock with-out!
So we really just wasted good shooting time in the debate!
My Hawken is prettier though!
   We will argue that one later!
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline crow_feather

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2004, 03:24:01 PM »
S.Sumner,

There was a lever action rifle made in the 1600's.  It worked but there were enough problems that it failed to be accepted by the hunting public.

As with the in-line rifle made prior to the begining of cartridge rifles.  At that time, it did not work well enough that it was accepted by the hunting public.  It needed modern manufactering methods and materials to make it acceptable.  It was not a standard piece of equipment until the 20th century. Thus - not Traditional.

So many things were designed in history that required modern manufactering methods.  There was a submarine made in the War of Independance.  It worked!  Just not well enough.

C F
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline S.S.

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2004, 08:54:05 AM »
If you look through history at the things folks
came up with, and then you think
"what if that had worked"
It kinda' makes you wonder what kind
of stuff we would have today!
One of the oriental countries (I forget which)
actually had a magazine fed crossbow that
held four arrows and if my eyes weren't seeing
things in the picture wrong IT WAS ALSO A PUMP ACTION!
Really cool stuff!
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline crow_feather

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2004, 11:38:39 AM »
If you think a Hawken is pretty, Take one look at a Tryon and you might change your mind.

C F
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline Ramrod

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2004, 12:41:29 PM »
The Hawken was a club! If your stuck on caplocks, look at a Lemen fullstock, or a Vincent (Ohio) half stock. Thats pretty. Still, nothing compares to a golden age PA. flinlock for looks.
Bet I just peed a few folks off. :lol:  Sorry!
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline crow_feather

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2004, 03:06:32 PM »
O K,
The Vincent is sorta nice, too bad it wasn't made as a full stock.

C F
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline Ramrod

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2004, 02:21:35 AM »
Crow-feather, good luck handling it in private! I remember a while back, someone posted a shotgun question here, it was about a more modern type. Some fellas tried to steer the guy to a more traditional weapon. Then the entire thread got moved to the Inline forum, by a moderator or whoever. Fine, thats where it should have been posted in the first place. Well the next day I look in and old Randy had deleted every post that even mentioned traditional, and had the nerve to APOLOGIZE to his loyal groupies for THE INTRUSIONS! I think his actions speak clearly about what kind of man he is.
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline crow_feather

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What happened to the predjudice post?????
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2004, 07:26:15 AM »
Ramrod,

Randy is now trying to turn his "post deleting" into a Traditional vs in-line dispute.  He has got to be the king of deception.
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.