caliber for called in fox and bobcats?

[thelaw]

considering an NEF singleshot in .22hornet or .223 or maybe even a rechambered version of a .22cal. for called in fox, bobcat and occassionally coyotes. what is a recommended round that can be used that will minimize petl damage to fox and bobcat, yet still drop a coyote in its tracks. i'm thinking the .22 hornet may not be enough? any input?

[oso45-70]

Thelaw,
If you have a 22 hornet i woulden hesitate for a second shooting a yote, fox or bobcat. A wll plced shot from a hornet is more than plenty to stop any of the three you mentioned. I have used the hornet when i was saving the pelts. Have a good day.............Joe....................................

[Lawdog]

thelaw,

My number one rifle/caliber I use for calling varmints is a Ruger No. 1 in .22 Hornet.  Deadly on any coyote, let alone anything smaller, out to 150-175 yards.  I have taken upwards to 100 coyote every year with a Hornet.  Get the .22 Hornet and don't worry.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog

[Jerry Lester]

I agree. The 22 Hornet is probably about the best you could do as far as anything from foxes to coyotes.

[dangerranger]

Nothing wrong with the hornet but if I was buying a new rifle Id be looking at 223.Alot of good ammo out there. hornet ammo is not so common.you never know when youll forget or loose your ammo supply.

[Lawdog]

dangerranger,

hornet ammo is not so common.you never know when youll forget or loose your ammo supply.

Actually, the .22 Hornet is enjoying a re-birth of sorts.  Ammo is becoming more and more prevalent.  I am finding it in many places that never carried it before.  Reloading the Hornet is about the easy and cheap as you can get.  A 1 pound tin of powder seems to last forever(which is nearly does).  Using 40 gr. .224 bullets you can load the .22 Hornet up to near 2,900 fps. and still be under max. pressure.  Called in varmints are usually shot under 75(and less) yards which is right in the sweet spot of the .22 Hornet.  My favorite called in coyote load is;

10.3 gr. of H110 behind a Barnes 50 gr. VLC for 2,676 fps.

This load will group under 1/2” all day from my Ruger No. 1.  Hide damage is held to a minimum.  The very nicest thing about the .22 Hornet is you can see the bullet hit due to the almost non-existent recoil.  For called in critters the .22 Hornet is very hard to beat.  Small groups and tight lines to all.  Lawdog
 

[oso45-70]

Gentleman,
I have the little ruger mod. 77 hornet and it is very accurate, Can keep them under a one inch all day. I use 12 1/2 grs lil gun and shoot 37 gr.
calhoon bullets and nothing gets away if i do my part. The little calhoons
goes in and explodes and the end results is instant death. I shoot p-dogs out to about 175 yds and have great luck with it. And like Lawdog said they are becoming more popular every day. They dan't make much noise so the people around you don't get so irritated. And another thing about the calhoon bullets they don't ricochet, once they touch some thing they blow up.  You All Have A Good Day..............Joe...................

[Lawdog]

oso45-70,

I have been meaning to try those Calhoon bullets but lost their web address.  Do you have it or the address of the outfit where you buy them?  Also, how well do you believe they compare to the Hornady V-Max or the Barnes VLC bullets?  They are the two bullets that I have been using due to getting about the same POI and great accuracy with them.  Small groups(and that is what you get with a Hornet) and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 

[varmit_master]

Hi everbody my vote would have to go with a 223 rifle because of the ammo is cheap and plus you will have more range than a 22 Hornet my father in law has a hornet to me i dont like it too much but hey that is me i use a 22 250 but the 250 is to hard on a grey fox so i got me a 223 rifle i think it will be just what the DR order for the foxes and cats VM

[oso45-70]

Lawdog,
I have the adress and phone number for James Calhoon, Don't know if he plays on the computer or not. I call him when i need more bullets and he gets them in the mail rite away.

James Calhoon
Shambo rte.304
Havre, Mt. USA 59501
( 406-395-4079 )
He makes bullet in more than one cal. I use them in my 17 Rem also.
You got to like them, After fifty years of shooting critters its pretty hard
to impress me and i'm impressed. He will send you a box or 1000 which ever tickles your fancy.     Good luck  .......Joe

[Lawdog]

oso45-70,

Thank you for the address and phone number, I'll get an order off this week.

varmit_master,

I have seen the results of the .223 Remington on Fox and Bobcats.  I hope you are really good with a needle because you will need to be.  Lawdog
 

[scruffy]

If you're a reloader and good at working up loads, understanding reloading manuals, etc, I'd get the 223.   Load it down to near hornet levels for fox and cat and load it to standard levels for coyotes.  Then just by changing the handloaded ammo in the rifle you have the best of both worlds.

Just remember to follow the reloading manuals.  To low a load is dangerous just like too high a load is.  :eek:

later,
scruffy

[Lawdog]

I never have hunted a area where I had the option of switching ammo for the critter that shows up.  My luck would be that I would have coyotes loads in my rifle and a nice Grey Fox or Bobcat would come walking in and good-bye hide.  Lawdog
 

[scruffy]

Well duhhhhh...     :wink:

You'd have to decide how you were hunting before you start your stand.  I hunt with a buddy with a 22-250 and he takes the long range coyotes and I take the foxes and close coyotes with a 22 mag or 12 gauge 3" mag #2 hevishot (I prefer to use a Rem 870 20" IC slug barrel).  If I handloaded I'd use my 223 with a downloaded 35 or 40 grain "22 hornet" vmax instead of the 22 mag.

When I take a new caller out (usually a kid) I use my 223 and the new guy uses a shotgun until I see how safe a shooter he is.  If I'm out by myself (9 times out of 10) I use the 223 and if I see a really fured up cherry red fox I go for a head shot.

later,
scruffy

[varmit_master]

Hi Lawdog i got the 223 because the 22 250 was to much for a fox i have use my 22 mag on fox and it works good up close i was thinking about trying some 50gr pointed soft point bullets VM

[Lawdog]

scruffy,

Well Geeeeee......  :wink:

So what happens if you can’t get a shot at said Red Fox’s head(which happens a lot)?  I have no intention of letting a prime pelt go just because I was overgunned.  The .22 Hornet will handle any coyote out to 175 plus yards which easily covers 99% plus of the called in critters.  One bullet and load covers all and I don’t have to worry about which pocket I got which load in and trying to change loads at the last moment just because something other than what I was expecting comes strolling in.  I also have a .223 Remington, a .224 Weatherby Magnum(the ballistic twin to the .22-250) and a .223 WSSM(the fastest of all factory loaded .22 centerfires) but for called in critters I have found that the .22 Hornet will work just fine with little pelt damage for 99% of the animals you call in.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 

[scruffy]

I have but one thing to add to lawdogs comments.  Instead of getting a 22hornet get a 223 and load it to hornet levels.  You have a much wider variety of 223 rifles to choose from, 223 brass is cheap, 223 brass is sold everywhere reloading supplies are sold, 223 brass can be reloaded many more times then 22 hornet brass (22Khornet is much easier on brass), and in the end you can have both a 22hornet capabilities and 223 capabilities in one rifle.

Even if you never shoot a factory 223 or fully loaded 223 in your rifle, you only shoot 22 hornet level loads, you'll be money ahead.  Cheaper brass, higher rifle resale, and easier rifle to sell.

If you get a 22hornet rifle that's all it is, you can't load it up to 223 levels.  You can only load down, you can't go up.  Just like a 300 win mag can be loaded down to 30-06 levels, a 30-06 can't be loaded up to 300 win mag levels.

So like lawdog said, shoot a hornet, it is superior for small preditors.  I just add buy a 223 and download to hornet levels.  Much more flexibility and value.

edit: and if you go back and reread my posts you'll see I never said for anyone to change loads while in the middle of calling something in....  :roll:   That's insane!  :lol:  Sorry that you misunderstood me!

On the head shot, some fur is better than no fur.  If I can't get a head shot on a fox, or a coyote up close for that matter (which happens alot more often), he's going to have a hole...  

It's a trade off.  Range verses size of holes.  The more range a rifle has the bigger the hole up close or on smaller targets.  Relatively the shorter the range the rifle has the smaller the hole.  I pick mid range, mid size hole, the 223.  My friend likes long range, big hole, 22-250.  You like short range, small hole 22 hornet.

To each there own.  

later,
scruffy

[Catfish]

If you don`t reload the .22 Hornet would be the best. I you reload I would recomand the the .17 AH. At close ranges eather one of these 2 will serve you well.