Bullet Sizer - Star or Saeco

[haroldclark]

The question is which is most suitable for all purposes.  It is my opinion that the Saeco (Redding) lubricator/sizer/gas check seater all in one is the  most versatile.

I have both.  I bought the Star lubrisizer in the late 70s.  I had two of them and I still own one of them.  I used them exclusively for pistol bullets of all sizes and it worked great for many thousands of bullets.

I started shooting cast bullet rifle loads in the early 80s and I bought a (Redding) Saeco sizer.  

A while back, I read about using the Star to seat gas checks and size rifle bullets.  I ordered a .310 die with a flat top punch to give the Star a run.  

Putting the gas check on the base and aligning it up with the punch was at best a pitiful substitute for the Saeco.  Yes, I put the nose of the bullet in first.  If the gas checks didn't fit the bullet shank easily, there was not enough pressure to cause a good seat of the check.  

The Saeco has two vertical shafts that keep the top punch aligned with the bullet in the die.  A top punch to match the bullet goes in the top punch and the bullet is perfectly aligned on the axis of the sizing die.  If your bullet is not a Saeco Mold, you can obtain an oversized top punch and make it fit the nose of your bullet by using epoxy filler.

In the past 3 years, I have cast and loaded 29,551 bullets.  20,294 of those bullets were gas checked rifle loadings. In addition, I have sized and gas checked 3,444 Oregon Trail Laser Cast rifle bullets and fired them.

For all of the above mentioned cast bullets I used the Saeco lubricator/sizer.  The accuracy is excellent.

I really like my Star, but it is not the "Star" when it comes to gas checked bullets.

In the past week, I have cast 1605 more 30 caliber bullets.  I ran a speed test with the Saeco to determine what my speed rate is.

In 22 minutes, I gas checked and sized 140 bullets.  I have yet to run a timed test with the Star Machine and I don't know that I will.

All of you new cast bullet shooters might want to take a look at the Saeco machine.  It is less expensive than the star.  Having used both of them, I prefer the Saeco.

Harold Clark

[HWooldridge]

I bought a SAECO lubrisizer about 25 years ago (when it still was SAECO) and have never regretted it.  The handle on mine was aluminum bar stock and bent while seating gas checks on 45-70 bullets so I made one out of steel but beyond that, it is an excellent machine.  I buy the dies and make my own nose punches on my lathe.

[hammerhead357]

I have used both very extensively. I no longer have a SAECO unit but that is not because I didn't like them I think they are great. As for the Star unit my preference is to feed the bullets nose first and just use a flat base punch. I use Hornady gas checks but I understand that they make all of the checks available from RCBS, Lyman and Hornady. I don't know if there is any difference in the others or not.
Later.....................Wes

[haroldclark]

My Saeco is about 15 years old.  My handle is steel, but too short for ease of operation.  I extended the handle to reduce the pressure required on my old painful elbow.

The only difference that I have noted in the different gas check brands is the Hornady Brand name has a little lip on the inside that grips the bullet when it is seated and sized.  Lyman that is made by Hornady is a straight cup.  I don't know about RCBS Brand.  They are all made by Hornady as I understand.

I have a shooting buddy that uses Lyman type and the work great.  I started using Hornady years ago.  I have used some Lymans, but they cost 25% more than the Hornadys.

Harold Clark

[FAsmus]

Harold,

Harold says: The question is which is most suitable for all purposes.  It is my opinion that the Saeco (Redding) lubricator/sizer/gas check seater all in one is the  most versatile.

Forrest: You have not commented on the typical RCBS/Lyamn sizers at all. Are they even in the running?

I use a SAECO machine and have for these 25 years. I too have replaced the aluminum handle with steel but otherwise the machine has functioned withut fail for all this time.

My only problem is with the short throw of the ram: When it comes time to size bullets in excess of 1.500 long it becomes tough to get the bullets into/out of the die.

I have solved this problem by leaving the nose punch out of the tool completely, placing the nose of my bullets directly into the contersunk nose punch hole. This works tollerably well but a longer throw would be better.

I was interested in the number of bullets you cast, size and shoot Harold. The number of rounds involved is rather large. What kind of shooting do you do that uses up that many bullets?

Plus! If you can spare them save the gas check boxes for me; I use them to store bullets in.

Good morning,
Forrest

[haroldclark]

I have had a limited experience with the RCBS and Lyman sizers.  I had use of a brand new Lyman a few months ago, but I didn't really get a test run on it.  The older ones that I have seen, seem to be rather loose around the ram.

I really don't want to comment on them any further, since my experience has been so limited.  I know several guys that use them and the seem to enjoy successful cast bullet shooting.

[LAH]

I've never used a Saeco, but would like to. I started with a used Lyman 450 back in 73. I've replaced one pressure screw and one handle. It still works great.

I use 3 Star sizers for most my hand lubing, using the Lyman only for the .512 dia. bullets since we sell so few of them.

Most our gas check bullets are sized and lubed on the Star. If we have a long run of gas check bullets, I will use the auto luber. As long as the bases are filled out as they should be so the check fits snug to the bullet it's no problem. They will feed fine. But over look one and have it come off in the tube, it will most likely foul the transfer bar.

I have no "accurate" rifles with which to compare the Star bullets with the Lyman bullets. 30 caliber bullets lubed with either seem to shoot the same size groups.

[Lloyd Smale]

ived owned 3 different lymans from the oldest model to the newest ive used a rcbs alot. Never tried a seaco. I only use a star now. Its by far the easiest and fastest to use. Ive never had a problem seating gas checks with it unless like creeker said the bases are filled out. But then if there not nothing will put them on tight enough. Feeding bullets nose first in a star will eliminate the problem you will have with a lyman or rcbs with big bullets not being perfectly square with the die and sizing one side more then the other and it will make for more accurate bullets.

[haroldclark]

I pulled out the Star sizwer with a .310 sizing die today to give it another run.  I had just finished over 400 30 caliber slugs with gas checks on the Saeco Machine.

I lubed one hundred Saeco #315 173 grain new castings.

My final comment on the subject is:  Gentlemen, if I were you, I would not give up my Saeco sizer in favor of the Star.

Harold Clark

[LAH]

I wouldn't suggest it either Harold unless speed was the main factor. The .30 cal. bullet I make could not have it's gas check seated correctly in a Star using a .310 die. The bullet simply isn't large enough as cast.

For those of you with this problem and having only a Star, Mr. Taffin suggest using a small piece of plate to cover the sizing die. Place the bullet nose against the metal plate and use the base punch to seat the gas check. Remove the plate and size the bullet.

I've enjoyed your post on the Saeco sizer Mr. Clark and if starting again fresh, would most likely choose one over the Lyman.

[haroldclark]

It is great to have different opinions, isn't it?

Harold

[LAH]

It is great to have different opinions, isn't it?

Harold

Tell us about the Saeco #315?

[haroldclark]

The bullets is listed as a 30-30 bullet, but it works in 308s and 30-06s like a champ.  I have 4 30-30s and they don't like the bullet.  They prefer Saeco #316 150 grainer.

I just went to the Redding/sac website and they don't have the 315 pictured.  So I will describe it.

It weighs 173 grains (depending on the casting mix)
Length = 1.125" without gas check.

The nose is .434" from front tip to the first lube ring.

Drive Bands = 5  The band on the base above the check = 1/8th " tall
Lube rings between all bands, of course, not counting the space above the gas check.
The nose at the widest part is .1025" in diameter.  The nose portion could be defined as a truncated cone with flat point.

Each driving band increases in diameter down to the base .  The base or the last large drive band of the body measures .313".

I only lube the space above the gas check and two groves above it.

The bullet is great in that it engages the lands and the grooves of the barrel and aligns rather well.

I was so happy with the one I bought about 14 or 15 years ago that I bought a second one. I have stored it until recently when I realized that the first one was going to out live me, so I must use the second one to increase production.

I do keep the bullets separated from the different molds.

I mentioned GAR as a supplier earlier in this conversation.

The #315 is listed in his catalog for $87 for a 4 cavity.  Call him and get his catalog for free.

GAR for Reloaders
973-754-1114

[haroldclark]

Forrest asked: I was interested in the number of bullets you cast, size and shoot Harold. The number of rounds involved is rather large. What kind of shooting do you do that uses up that many bullets?


Harold Writes:  Since I wrote the parent article on this subject I have cast another 1,033 bullets.

I have been casting two bullet types recently for 30 calibers.  I shoot two days a week, all day, at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center near Ione, California.  I only shoot at the 500 meter Rifle Silhouette Range.  I will shoot 2 to 3 hundred cast bullets a week, so when I make a molding run, I keep on it until I have enough to last a while.

I recently cast at total of 2,633 keeper bullets and almost of equal numbers of each of the Saeco 315 and the Saeco #316.  I use the 315 in my 308 Encore 15", CZ Varmit 308 and a Remington 742 Semi-auto in 30-06 out to the 500 meter Rams.  We set the rams off their pads slightly so that the small cast bullets can knock them down.

The 316 is my favorite 30-30 bullet.  Last Monday, I was able to consistantly hit 500 meter rams with a 16.25 Contender on a handgun setup.  It is incredible.  One must have a good spotter that can read the mirage and wind or this will not happen.  Monday, I was holding 3 feet into the wind to hit a Ram.  I mean 3 feet left of his nose.

I have had occsions when 8 feet of left wind was required with the 30-06 to buck the wind at 9:00 O'clock.  

I hope this answers your questions about quantity and what I shoot.

By the way, we have a Long Range handgun match tomorrow at the Rifle Range.  I'm tempted to use cast bullets, but I'm not quite up to it yet with my spotter yet.

Harold Clark

[LAH]

Thanks for taking the time to answer Harold. Really enjoyed, especially the part on lubing only part of the grooves.

I wondered if anyone but hillbillys used the 30-30 past a couple hundred yards....HEE HEE

[haroldclark]

I am from Kentucky, originally and that is a hillbilly for sure.  However, I mean that in the nicest way.

My shooting partners and I have a lot of fun with shooting the 30-30 Contender and lever action Marlin rifles with micro-groove barrels.  Ask anyone that knows and they will tell you that you can't hit a dinner plate at 100 yards, especially with cast bullets.

I have to elevate the rear of the scope base to get out to 500 meters and/or use the Burris Signature Zee rings with inserts up to plus 20 minutes in the rear and minus 5 or 10 in the front ring.

My TC Contender 16" is elevated so high to get to 500 meters that I can't get down to 200 meter Chickens.  I'm going to work on a reduced load that will drop enough for the chicks.

I am off to out Long Range Handgun Shooting Match this morning.  We shoot 40 targets.  I have never won our match, but one of my buddies is a steady winner.  His best score is 38 out of 40 and that is the highest score so far.  He was using a factory 7mmTCU with Hornady 162 BTSP bullets.

I am really getting off the subject here.  Maybe, I should start another chat on bullet s and etc.

Harold

[LAH]

Here's wishing you the best with  your match.