307 or 30/30 Improved

[Goat]

Surely some of you out there have experience with both or at least have access to more information than I do. If you were going to convert a Marlin 336 30/30 with the standard 20 inch barrel which would you choose and why? The rifle would be used to hunt white-tailed deer and poke holes in paper. If you have experience with one or the other or both of these rounds what velocities did you get with 170-180 gr. projectiles?  Thanks for any input.

[C A Plater]

This is easy, .30-30 AI.  Why, because the .307 is a different head and would require bolt face modifications and because it is a higher pressure round, it may be too much for the action.  By sticking with the .30-30 case, nothing other than a rechamber is required.   My gunsmith buddy has a Winchester 64 in .30-30 AI and he reports about 400 fps higher over regular .30-30 loads.   That would put a full 170 grain load in the 2300-2400fps range.

[NYH1]

According to the drawings at the "reload bench" http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/307w.html the 30-30 Win. and the 307 Win. have the same head diameter .506" and the same head thickness .063". I would think all you need to do is ream the chamber on either one and you'd be all set.

[Graybeard]

My gunsmith buddy has a Winchester 64 in .30-30 AI and he reports about 400 fps higher over regular .30-30 loads.

That is EXACTLY the reason I'd suggest you avoid the .30-30 AI like the plague. Reloading data (RELIABLE PRESSURE TESTED RELOADING DATA) is as scarce as hen's teeth.

It is a fact of life that when you increase case volume by 4% you increase velocity 1% IF you maintain same pressure. The .30-30 AI back when I had one and measured increased case volume less than 10% over the standard .30-30. This means at most with same pressure you should expect 2.5% more velocity. Do the math. An extra 400 fps means pressure is up by likely on the order of 20,000 or more.

With the .307 Win. at least there is plenty of pressure tested data available so you know what you're getting into. Marlin chambered this round in the 336 so it should be fine as far as pressures go IF you stick to book data. Winchester also chambered it in the angle eject big bore only I think so I'd not try it in any other Winchester than those.

Both the .30-30 and .307 use same shell holder and case heads are darn near if not exactly the same. I'm not looking at a manual right now but I think as stated by New York Hunter they are the same.

I honestly don't think there is any real world effective difference in any of the three for what you'll use it for. The old .30-30 is a perfectly adequate 150-175 yard deer killer if you do your part. That's about all the .307 is also and is all the .30-30 AI is if loaded to same pressures as .30-30.

GB

[45LC-Man]

.................. plus with the .307 you don't need custom or expensive dies. You can use .308 Winchester dies and loading data and a .308 reamer. When it was intruduced in the 50's the pressure of the .307 and the .308 were the same at around 52,000 psi. The .356 Win was loaded to the same pressures as the .358 Win so strength of the action isn't an issue. In recent years I've noticed a reduction of those pressures in both the .307 and the .356 in the manuals though.

In my opinion go with the .307.

[K2]

HI Goat  

If you love to tinker then read what the others have said.  Personally I would put the $ into reloading components and shoot the 30-30 lots more till I got to be a better shot.  I think the .307/.356 series were fantastic however neither sold very well.  Of those 2 the .356 would be my choice for a short range deer gun but lets face it a good shot from a 30-30 puts the meat in the freezer to often to say it isn't up to the job.   Been down the wildcat road myself and from my experience unless the standard cartridges are not doing the job there is no good reason for the effort unless as I said you really enjoy that sort of thing.  I've a buddy that loves to cast bullets because he likes to play with liquid metal  :wink:

Surely some of you out there have experience with both or at least have access to more information than I do. If you were going to convert a Marlin 336 30/30 with the standard 20 inch barrel which would you choose and why? The rifle would be used to hunt white-tailed deer and poke holes in paper. If you have experience with one or the other or both of these rounds what velocities did you get with 170-180 gr. projectiles?  Thanks for any input.