S&W K-frame vs. Colt Detective Special: Any Opinions?

[lgm270]

The colt Det. Special (late model with shrouded barrel)  is only a little bigger than the Smith J-frame, but has a better action and a six shot cylinder.  Also, you can get a hammer shroud for it that is unavailable for the Smith K-Frame.  

I'm thinking of a shourded Det. Special, plated with Armoloy for a good all around, weather proof, corrosion resistant .38 snubbie.  I have a J-Frame M. 649 (shrounded hammer) 5-shot that I adore, but it seems like the Colt Det Special might be better. I know it has a better action and is only slightly bigger than the J-Frame.

Any thoughts?

[papajohn428]

Colt sold a lot of carry guns to cops in the 60's and 70's, many of whom succumbed to Colt's advertising hype about the "all-important sixth shot."  While the need for one more than five is subjective, the guns were solid and reliable.  I was able to shoot an older Colt, which I was told had the old "long action", and while it was smooth, there wasn't really that much of a difference.  If you can find a good used Colt at a reasonable price, I'd say get it!  Only you can make the decision about which is best for you.

PJ

[lgm270]

I agree that the K-frame has a great action.  I have a couple of them and like them very much. They are, however, larger than the Colt D-Frame and hammer shrouds are not availlable for them. Why hammer shrouds should be made for the S&W J=frame and the Colt D frame but not for the ubiquitous K-frame is inexplicable to me, but who knows why manufacturers make the decisions that they do?

 I like the  smaller size of the Colt D-frame  and the option of the  shrouded hammer.  With the shrouded hammer, you can  shoot the gun from inside your coat pocket and empty it without fear of it jamming or of the hammer catching on the pocket lining.  If you opt to draw before firing, there is nothing to snap and you get a smooth, effortless draw from under a coat, out of a pocket or whatever.

Thank you for your comments, which I enjoyed very much.

[Mikey]

Igm:  I'm sure going with cknight on this one, and although I prefer the S&W over the Colt, I too wish S&W would come up with a concealed hammer K-frame.  However, all is not lost - one of the smoothest, pocket friendly K-frames I ever handled, fondled, shot and enjoyed carrying was a 2" Model 10 with a round butt that had the hammer bobbed.  There was just enough of a 'nubbin' left on the hammer to enable the shooter to cock it back for a single action shot, but that was hardly necessary as it was so incredibly smooth.  If you definately, desperately, absolutely feel the need for that 6th shot, then you may wish to go that route.  Otherwise, I would suggest a 5 shooter smith in the form of a Model 38, the Airweight Bodyguard, stuffed with heavy slugs.  Mikey.

[dawei]

The colt Det. Special (late model with shrouded barrel)  is only a little bigger than the Smith J-frame, but has a better action and a six shot cylinder.  Also, you can get a hammer shroud for it that is unavailable for the Smith K-Frame.  

I'm thinking of a shourded Det. Special, plated with Armoloy for a good all around, weather proof, corrosion resistant .38 snubbie.  I have a J-Frame M. 649 (shrounded hammer) 5-shot that I adore, but it seems like the Colt Det Special might be better. I know it has a better action and is only slightly bigger than the J-Frame.

Any thoughts?

The shroud is only of use if shooting from your pocket; and then questionable.  The sixth shot is a moot point IMHO. I put a set of Wolff® springs on my S&W Airweight® Mdl 37 and it's an absolute dream to shoot. Additionally I can tell you from personal experience that the hammer DOES NOT hang up in the pocket (3 shots on a cold winter's night traffic stop). You have ALL THE GUN YOU NEED in your Mdl 649.

[Mikey]

cknight:  Chris - thanks.  I had forgotten about that one - sheesh, senior moments settin' in here (LOL).  Yes, that does sound like a good one.  

Dawei:  when you ordered your spring kit from Wolf for your Model 37, was there a particular pakage you requested - i.e., target, etc., or ddid Wolf offer just one spring kit for those j-frames???  Mikey.

[dawei]

cknight:  Chris - thanks.  I had forgotten about that one - sheesh, senior moments settin' in here (LOL).  Yes, that does sound like a good one.  

Dawei:  when you ordered your spring kit from Wolf for your Model 37, was there a particular pakage you requested - i.e., target, etc., or ddid Wolf offer just one spring kit for those j-frames???  Mikey.

SMITH & WESSON J Frame Revolvers

Includes Models:
    31, 32, 34, 36, 37, 38,42, 422, 49, 60, 63
    631, 632, 637, 638, 640, 642, 649, 940
 

SHOOTER'S PAK - Reduced Power
This pak contains 1 each 8 pound reduced power hammer spring and 1 each 13, 14 and 15 pound reduced power rebound springs allowing adjustment for lighter and smoother trigger and hammer action. Note: Models 317, 650, 651 have a 12 Lb. factory hammer spring.
Stock No. 17125.....$ 9.00 ea
 

HAMMER SPRINGS (Mainsprings)

Reduced Power...: 8 Lb.
Factory Standard.: 8.5 Lb.
Extra Power.........: 9 Lb.
Note: Models 317, 650, 651 have a 12 Lb. factory spring
Stock No. 238xx - each.....$ 4.29  
Stock No. 239xx - pak of 3.......$   8.99  
Stock No. 240xx - pak of 10.....$ 19.99  
    Please Note: Replace the "xx" in the stock number with the pound rating of spring.
 

HAMMER SPRING PAK
This pak contains 1 each 8, 8.5 and 9 pound hammer springs allowing optimum choice for your J-frame hammer action.
Stock No. 32355.....$ 9.00  

REBOUND SPRINGS
Rebound springs for J-Frame revolvers are the same as K,L & N frame revolvers.  Please see rebound springs and paks under K,L & N frame revolvers for individual springs and additional weights.

http://www.gunsprings.com/1ndex.html

[Mikey]

dawei:  thank you for that information.  Mikey.

[Old Griz]

:cb2: My understand from your question is that you already have a J frame and you're wondering if you should go up to a K frame, or get a Detective Special.

I love the looks and feel of the Detective Special, but have not fired one yet that was as accurate and easy to shoot as my 2.5" M19 (or 3" M66). I'd vote for the K frame any day, however, I would rather have the Colt than the J frame.

OK J frame lovers. You can jump on me now. I deserve it!  

[J.Solo]

I have both.
S&W "J" Frame, Blue, Model 36, 5 Shot, Chief's Special.
COLT Stainless DS-II, Detective Special with full Underlug.
Just picked up the COLT.  A Safe Queen that I could not pass up for the price.  It's the only COLT that I own.
I've had the Chief's Special for over 20 years and has always been my "Go To" carry gun.
That is until I got the COLT.
I like the COLT better with it's 6th round, slightly larger frame and grip, in stainless, with +P capability that I don't have with the S&W Model 36.  The COLT is also more accurate and easier to control with all types of .38 Special loads tried to date.
The COLT DS-II is now my "Go to" carry gun.

J.Solo

[Somerled]

Your 649 will be a little more comfortable to carry in a IWB holster because of its smaller cylinder. It will also fit into a coat pocket better.

The Detective Special will be a little more controllable in DA work than the 649. It has a larger grip frame and weighs more. Yes, the Detective Special stacks some, but it doesn't feel as foreign to this almost dyed-in-the-wool S&W user as the larger Colt Python does.

The Colt handles and points better than the J-frame S&W for me. The only J-frame I liked better was a 642 I put Spegel boot grips on.

I now have a Colt DS without the rod shroud. It was made in 1967. I also have a 2" barreled S&W Model 10 with a square grip frame. I like the Colt better. Five or six shots in the cylinder--I still carry a Bianchi Speed Strip or two and/or a speedloader just in case.

Its fun to try them all out.

[lgm270]

Somerled: Thanks for your post. I enjoyed it.   I agree with you. It is fun to try them all.  

Best,
lgm270

[Ed Harris]

I wouldn't trade a post-war Colt DS or Police Positive special for an S&W J or K frame, no way.

The non-magnum S&W frames are only mild plain carbon steel, man of them won't even register on the Rockwell "C" scale.  

In my experience with numerous J's and K's over the years, they don't stand up to heavy use.  If used heavily in DA you need to retime about every 1500 rounds of +P and after you have done this a couple of times and run out of oversized parts to put in it, stretched the crane or set bushings to take out the endshake and set the barrel back a thread to re-set the gap, you still have a fragile S&W.  It's cheaper to throw it away and buy another.

The "L" frame S&W isn't that much of an improvement over the K.  Ther US Customs used to require 10,000 round endurance tests with no malfunctions and no parts replacements using Q4070 +P+ ammo.  No S&W that I ever saw could no it.  The Colt OP and Python would sing through them and still maintain headspace, timing and accuracy when done.   That performance standard is what Ruger designed the SP101 and GP100 to meet and they do.

I freely admit to predjudice due to my having worked for Ruger, but while the Rugers may not have the nice finish and crisp action, they do work, and are safe and durable.  When we tested all the competitor's product to see the performance standard we had to meet in terms of reliability, durability and safety, the gun to equal (because you couldn't beat it) was Colt.

Untrained shooters don't like the way that the Colt action "stacks" in DA, but for a cop or licensed civilian in concealed carry it is less likely to give you an AD.  

When I need a compact carry gun my choice is a Colt DS 2".  When I can carry something larger it's either a Ruger Security Six .357 or SIG P245.