Open sight picture

[Jim B.]

When using open sights where the front sight is a bead (such as the Encore 209x50) what type of sight picture do you use for hunting?  Do you sight in so the bullet hits just above the bead, in the center of the area covered by the bead or some other sight picture?

Jim

[Redhawk1]

I use the 6 o'clock hold an all my open sights.

  O
^^^

[Darrell H]

Ditto what redhawk said.  Six o'clock hold...bullet hits just above point of aim....well, theoretically it should anyway!  :-D

X

[Bullseye]

I cover the spot I want to hit with the bead.  I never was able to get used to the 6 o'clock hold.

[Jim B.]

(I am cross-posting this from the in-line forum because of the discussion here about open sight picture - Jim B.)

Thanks very much to everyone who responded to my questions about target size and preferred sight picture. My objective in starting this discussion was to find out how to design a better target for my 209x50 for use in sighting in with an aperture sight and standard diameter front bead.

After some discussion with a colleague we concluded that it is a simple case of similar triangles. The solution we came up with is as follows (for my rifle):

Given:
- The apex of a triangle is at the aperture of the receiver sight
- The width of the front sight forms the base of a triangle with the apex
- The width of the target forms the base of similar triangle with the apex

Therefore:
The ratio of the distance from the apex (receiver sight) to the front sight divided by the width of the front sight should be same as the ratio of the distance to the target from the apex divided by the diameter of a circle that will be exactly subtended by the front sight.

The equation looks like: a/b = x/y
Or, rearranged to solve for "y": y=bx/a

Where:
- "a" is the distance from the aperture (apex) to the face of the front sight
- "b" is the width of the front sight
- "x" is the distance from the apex to the target
- "y" is the diameter of a target that will be exactly subtended (covered) by the front sight at distance "x"
- Units must be consistent!

In practice for my rifle, the solution looks like this:
- For simplicity, I use the form of the equation: y = (b/a)x
- The front sight is 0.095" wide (b)
- The face of the front sight is 25.06" from the face of the aperture sight (a)(apex)
- Those two measurements give me a ratio (b/a) of 0.00379 for my rifle
- At a distance of 50 yards (1800") from the muzzle (distance from muzzle to aperture could be added in but should not be significant) the solution is y = 0.00379 x 1800 => y = 6.8"
- At a distance of 100 yards (3600") from the muzzle the solution is y = 0.00379 x 3600 => y = 13.6"

What this tells me is that at 50 yards my front sight will just cover a circle about 7" in diameter. If I make a target designed like a ring with an inner diameter of 8 or 9 inches I should be able to center my front sight in the ring with visible white space around the front bead - kind of like a globe sight in reverse. Alternatively, I could make a solid color target disc about 8 or 9 inches in diameter and hold the front sight so there would be an even color rim around the bead.

Please keep in mind that this is just for targets for sighting-in and load development. It is also only relevant to those who subtend the target with their front sight. I would greatly appreciate any comments, corrections or suggestions.

Jim

[hyltoto]

with a rifle capable of 200 yards, you don't want to obstruct the target at long range, in your case a 150 yard shoy would have a coverage of 21 inches, pretty much thentire vital zone. I shoot service rifle and good iron sight s with a six o'clock hold can print 1 moa, on the x-ring.

[Jim B.]

Hyltoto,

I agree that a 200 yard shot with a sight of that size would make accurate bullet placement difficult.  It would be difficult with any bead-type front sight.  I think the blade-type front sights lend themselves much better to longer range shooting.  

The advantage of the bead-type front sight is rapid target acquisition (in my opinion) and the fiber optic bead gives a good sight picture in low light.  The down side is loss of precision at longer ranges.  On my rifles with blade sights, like you, I have found the six o'clock hold to be extremely accurate on targets.  Most of my open sighted hunting rifles use some form of bead front sight.  This works well for me - your mileage may vary.

Jim

[hyltoto]

But i've shot many groundhogs and other varmits at fairly long ranges using the 6'o'clock hold. I've had open shots at deer also, most often in late muzzle loading season. Trick with a muzzleloader is ballistic curve, but you can manage with these new fangled Encores and such.

[SmithAC]

I use the 6 o'clock. I've used the standard fiber optic open sights on my Encore 209X50. On the range they seemed perfect, as my groups on and off sandbags were good. The first time I used them for the real world hunt situation it was a different story as I had trouble keeping the 3 fiber dots lined up. It was a low light situation and the dots were visible but the relatively large space between the dots made it hard to keep them aligned and on the deer. This may not make sense ... but the remedy for me is the Williams receiver peep sights which I just received this week and can't wait to install them.