Author Topic: 1,000 yard shoot with a Thompson (Read 1937 times)

xphunter · « **on:** July 12, 2004, 07:05:42 AM »

If any of you have an interest in going to a 1,000 yard shooting using a specialty handgun please let me know. The range in Pella, Iowa is opening their shoot for handguns. I have made plans to shoot at the September 11, shoot. If this is of interest to you, please let me know. We may have enough guys to have our own relay.

bgjohn · « **Reply #1 on:** July 12, 2004, 09:06:16 AM »

I can't even SEE that far. :lol:
JM

Captainkev · « **Reply #2 on:** July 12, 2004, 09:17:03 AM »

Quote from: bgjohn

I can't even SEE that far. :lol:
JM

LOL

xphunter · « **Reply #3 on:** July 12, 2004, 10:09:10 AM »

JM,
You don't need to if you have the right scope :-D

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #4 on:** July 12, 2004, 10:36:35 AM »

That would have to be one hellava scope to see that far. :shock:

I thought them thousand yarders didn't use scopes? :?: :lol:

xphunter · « **Reply #5 on:** July 12, 2004, 11:22:54 AM »

A 20 power LER scope is a good starting point.
It is only guys like me with bad eyes that need optics all the rest use buckhorn sights :lol:

Reed1911 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 12, 2004, 12:54:15 PM »

Hmmm, as far as I recall Maddi makes a 50 BMG pistol. Betcha I could hit the gong with that!

xphunter · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2004, 05:38:55 AM »

I don't have any desire to pull the trigger on a 50BMG handgun.
A guy has to know his limitations.

Reed1911 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2004, 01:12:29 PM »

The pic they have up has (the owner's I think) little girl (10ish) shooting it. Needless to say it has the same monstrous muzzle break and the flame is beyond compare. Of course the cost is beyond compare as well, in the neighborhood of 5000.00 I think. Not much real use. just thought I'd throw it out there in the conv. mix. As for 1000 yd shooting with the T/C I'd think something in 6.5 or 7mm 140ish should do it. 7mm-08 perhaps? maybe 7x57

haroldclark · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2004, 05:30:18 PM »

The responses that you got to your inquiry are typical. We have a 1,000 yard range and it is not all that far if your mind will open up and let you think that far.

I shoot two days a week at 547 yards with various Contenders and Encores. When a new person is introduced to our shooting, the first thing I tell them is "Do not go telling anyone about what you saw or did here today. Particularly don't mention this to people that think they know all about shooting 'cause they will be the first to rain on your parade."

We shoot at round 6 inch steel discs at 547 yards with a scope. We shoot at the head of Rams at 547 yards with iron sights. We don't always hit, but the excitement is all in trying. I strive to do this with my cast bullets, as well.

So, Xp, don't be disappointed by the "poo peeing" of those that have not stepped up to the plate to try or even think of trying.

Harold Clark

xphunter · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2004, 05:54:09 PM »

Harold,
Appreciate your thoughts. I don't mind the humor of the posts. I have already done some shooting for groups at 1,000 yards for the past several years. Best 5-shot group @ 1,000 yards was 10 inches with my 284 Win. XP. Have shot a couple of groups at 500 meters that if I didn't have 9 other witnesses I wouldn't even talk about it here, but witnesses and pictures say a lot. Glad to know you are shooting at LR. My 6.5-284 XP is set-up for LR shooting whereas my 284 Win XP is my hunting handgun. Difference with competition is that I can't run my clicks in for the condition and then shoot for group. Plan to shoot my 7.82 Patriot XP and 222 Rem Mag Improved (Contender) 1-7 twist @ 1,000 yards in the future.

xphunter · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2004, 05:57:04 PM »

Forgot to mention optics. Will be using a 20x LER scope and hopefully a 24x Sightron rifle scope. Of course I will use the 3-12 LER some too.

B_Koes · « **Reply #12 on:** July 14, 2004, 07:28:42 AM »

Wow...I see that you actually considered my suggestion! Now if I could put that mindset into my wife! LOL

xphunter · « **Reply #13 on:** July 14, 2004, 08:26:03 PM »

It was & is a great suggestion. Now I just need to get my hands on one for several months so I can see if it will work for me like I hope it will. You need to let your wife know that you do come up with good ideas (at least every once in awhile). :idea:

Major · « **Reply #14 on:** July 15, 2004, 02:17:30 PM »

I used to shoot at 1,000 yards with an M1 years ago. It was a piece of cake. Now with an Encore or Contender I never considered that. You boys have got me thinkin. Sounds like a whole lot of fun. :wink:

jhalcott · « **Reply #15 on:** July 15, 2004, 03:58:42 PM »

Why wouldn't it be POSSIBLE to shoot 1000 yds with a handgun? I remember seeing a guy on TV shooting a snub nosed revolver at a balloon way out there AND hitting it. Most people do not realize how far a bullet CAN travel. The old 45-70 was calibrated to well over 1200 yards by the Buffington brothers.That round was lumbering along at about 1400 fps. When I was out in Arizona ,we sat on top of a dike used for flood management and shot a coyote 300 yards away with my 7br xp. There was an old car in the distance,about 800 yards out, that we started to shoot at for grins.It did not take long to figure the hold over needed to get consistent hits on the door of that car.I had a 2x8 variable on the xp and a 25x spotting scope.With more magnification even smaller targets would have been easy. jh

xphunter · « **Reply #16 on:** July 15, 2004, 08:30:55 PM »

One of the biggest hindrances for most people is what is between their ears. If you believe you can't do it, guess what? You won't try. With Burris Signature rings you can easily build minutes into your mount and not stress your scope, find 3-12 Burris and have a cartridge that is at the upper performance level of the COntender (high BC) or a number of cartridges in the Encore and you can have a lot of fun at ranges you thought not posssible. Don Bower has been shooting LR with Contenders for years. They would write or call him and tell him he was a fake and he would chide them into coming out to Colorado to expose his lies. Many conversions to LR shooting came that way in the past.
A good number in F-Class and in light use the 6BR.

trophyhunter · « **Reply #17 on:** July 18, 2004, 12:34:23 PM »

ive been interested in getting a barrell to shoot my encore at 1000 yds since i got it. i want to get a 300 win mag for it from eabc or virginia valley 31 inches long i know its not a pistol but i like rifles. i like 300 because i can get the lost river ballistics in .308 cal they seem to have the highest ballistic coef. of any bullet i think it would be alot of fun. if it was not so far away i mite come and just try it with my 308 15 inch encore barrel lots of luck to tyou all sounds like a blast.

Ladobe · « **Reply #18 on:** July 24, 2004, 08:33:47 PM »

Guess I'll chime in as one who has been there..... I've shot the 1000 yard fun matches on ocassion for around 5-6 years with my Contender wearing a 15" 6.5 Super Bower/Bullberry barrel and Burris 10X Target pistol scope. The 10X scope is my limiting factor (assuming I don't screw up)... the 6.5SB is easily capable of putting them all in there at that range. Even though its just a fun match, we have to shoot prone but can use whatever rest we want. Tried the mechanical rest at first... then the Bower Rest System... but do better with a Harris Bipod and a soft rear bag. Never won a match, but have sure scared the hell out of some of the BR guys with their fancy-smancy bench rifles. Lots of fun, and great practice with this barrel which is also one of my speed goat rigs. Guess I need to check into bumping the scope up to 20X-25X, or maybe even higher if I were to get serious about shooting 1000 yard matches.
Larry :bye:

Lone Star · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2004, 03:41:38 AM »

The greatest physical limitation for 1000-yard shooting is bullet velocity. Successful LR rifle shooters know to keep the bullet velocity supersonic until it passes the 1000 yard target; otherwise the bullet becomes unstable as it transitions to the subsonic. This is a well-known phenomenon with RF handgun silhouette shooters as well.

IME with RF and centerfire at long (relative) ranges is that the group moa opens up as the bullet goes subsonic, then often - not always - tightens up again. Years ago I didn't believe this could happen, but enough .22RF shooting at various ranges convinced me that it can and does.

How does this relate to 1000-yard handgun shooting? Select you bullet and muzzle velocity so that the bullet stays supersonic, or has transitioned subsonic well before the target. Example: a .264" 140 A-Max at 2300 fps muzzle velocity would be a poor load choice as it arrives at the 1000 yard butts right under the speed of sound - depending on air temperature. The same bullet at 2500 fps will group much better.

haroldclark · « **Reply #20 on:** July 25, 2004, 07:59:47 AM »

Lost River Bullets. Those are the solid copper bullets that are turned on a lathe from copper.

One of my shooting buddies ordered a box of 140s in 6.5 and 160something in the 7mm. In the first place, he just ordered a "Box" of each and later realized that a box contained 20 bullets or a buck a piece.

We tried them at 500 meters being as to how the ballistic coeficient was great and the solid mass should retain it's momentum longer after hitting the Steel Ram.

Great Idea, but we couldn't hit a one ton Ford Truck at 500 out of a deadly accurate 96 Swede Mauser or a 7mm TCU Contender. It took many cleanings with copper mining sauces like Sweets 7.62 to remove the first level of copper.

The bullets were not smooth on the surface. The machining marks from the cutting on the lathe were severe.

I can't imagine what they wouldn't do at 1000 yards.

Harold

xphunter · « **Reply #21 on:** July 26, 2004, 08:00:07 AM »

Lost River Bullets have a bad reputation for not shooting good.

Velocity is definitely an issue @ 1,000 yards.

My 6.5-284 (17 inch barrel) is pushing 140 A-Max's in the 2700-2800 fps range with great accuracy especially in the 2700 range. Plan to use it in September with a couple of other handguns in Iowa in a 1,000 yard match.

haroldclark · « **Reply #22 on:** July 27, 2004, 07:27:24 PM »

The group of guys that I shoot with and I have been having a conversation about 1000 yard shooting. I mentioned earlier, I think, that 2 of my friends have purchased Virgin Valley barrels to shoot our 500 meter match and play at 1000 yards. They both shoot 1000 yard rifles and are intending to play at 1000 with their Encores.

Earlier today, I asked Dan where he was getting his scope set up to shoot 1000 yards. He has a 17" barrel in 6.5 WSSM with a JP Howitzer brake. His response is below:

Harold,
I called Premiere Reticles and told them what I wanted to do with my Encore and they told me they could set the parallax at 300 yrds which would allow me to easily focus from 200 yrds out to infinity. They informed me that there would be a slight blurring towards the edge of the sight picture but the center would be in focus and after trying the scope out it is just as they said, no problem in the middle but at long ranges if you look to the very outside of the lenses ( which no one ever does shooting at targets) there is a slight blur to the outer edge but it really is not noticeable shooting at targets. I shot it today at 100 yrds and there was no problem focusing ( they told me that would be about the limit to short range since the parallax is set at 300 yrds but I really don't intend on shooting it at less than 200 yrds anyway.
So far I am very happy with the scope and can't wait to shoot at the longer distances.
I shot my new load (the old A-MAX bullet ) through the Chrony today and found that it is popping out at 2684 avg.with a B.C. of .618 so the bullets will sail out to 1000 with no problem. It shot a 7/8" 5 shot group @ 100. Quik target program tells me they will still be traveling at 1480 fps at 1000 yrds.
The scope I ordered from Premiere Reticle was the 2.5X-8X 32mm Gloss Duplex with parallax set at 300 yrds and set up with tapered target turrets and the cost was $455.00. (worth every penny)
See you guys next week at the shoot, Dan

xphunter · « **Reply #23 on:** July 28, 2004, 05:20:54 AM »

Harold,
My assumption has been that I can adjust my parallax on my Burris 3-12's with AO out to a 1,000 yards. I have used this scope out to a 1000 yards before without problems. Out of curiosity I may call Burris just to check that out to make sure.

haroldclark · « **Reply #24 on:** July 28, 2004, 06:16:27 AM »

I have a 3 to 12 with PA and target knobs. Once you pass 500 yards, the next line is set for Infinity (Infinite distance). The main issue with PA is 200 yards and closer with my Burris Scopes. After that, changes in the settings out to 500 meters is not as obvious.

Most of the 1,000 yard shooters at our range, shoot early in the morning to avoid the mirage and wind. Before the sun heats the ground, a view with a scope on 12 power is crisp and clear. By mid-day, you would think your scope has gone haywire at 400 and 500 meters. At 1,000 yards, you might just be wasting your time.

Monday of this week, I was on the 500 meter silhouette range, as I am every Monday and Thursday. It was 100 degrees by 11 AM. There was a slight shifting wind of up to 12 to 15 mph and times when the wind would simply stop. When the wind stops on a hot day, the picture of the target that you see through glass or naked eye rises above the actual target. Your shot will hit high over the actual target. Your sight settings, that worked just fine at 8 AM to 10 AM, are no longer working. 300 meter pigs become difficult, as well. We would get goofy over the change after our Lunch Break, until we finally got the drift. It simply couldn't be what we ate that caused all those misses.

By noon, that day, we had no wind and then left wind and then right wind. There is no way at 400 and 500 meters that you can even hit a target without a well versed spotter telling you where to hold, except an occasional accident.

That is another entire subject that we might start a thread to discuss.

Harold Clark

haroldclark · « **Reply #25 on:** July 28, 2004, 06:40:15 AM »

Quote from: jhalcott

Why wouldn't it be POSSIBLE to shoot 1000 yds with a handgun? I remember seeing a guy on TV shooting a snub nosed revolver at a balloon way out there AND hitting it. Most people do not realize how far a bullet CAN travel.

Halcott's quote above brought a couple of interesting things to my mind. Years ago, I hate to tell how many years ago, I spent a couple weeks at a military base in San Luis Obispo, California attending an Officers Survival course. It was two of the most intense weeks I ever experienced and I had been on the streets as a beat cop and a detective in Narcotics in Oakland, California.

One of the first firearm days, an old gunny sergeant put a 5 gallon can of water at 600 yards. The group was behind a burm at the the 600 yard line with the can of water. He hit the damned thing with a Colt 1911 45 ACP. We yelled luck and he did it again. That changed my perspective of long range shooting.

One other thing, they professed was do not under estimate a 22 long rifle. Being pinned down behind a Cinder Block wall should be adequate cover from a 22. Wrong!!!! With a 22 semi-auto rifle and several magazines, he poked a hole through both sides of that wall in about 30 or 40 shots.

Shooting at ballons is a real kick in the pants. Hang balloons by a string about 12 inches down from a clothes line or other device. Shoot at them with a Keith type semi-wadcutter or a full wadcutter. It will make you crazy as the balloon dances away from the oncoming bullet and there is no wind. Now, try it with a 22 long rifle from a handgun or rifle and you can hit them at will. A round nose 38 will hit them too.

The flat nose bullet causes the air in front of the bullet to disperse sideways and the air makes the balloon move away before the bullet can hit it. Hence, Veral Smith of Lead Bullet Technology advocates wide flat nose bullets for Hunting as the flat nose of the bullet disperses water, muscle tissue sideways causing a severe wound channel.

Harold Clark
Note: I am starting a new threat called 1000 yards continued.

xphunter · « **Reply #26 on:** July 30, 2004, 10:19:25 AM »

Harold,
Just for gasps :eek: I know of handgunner (posts on a couple of other forums and I will meet him in Sept in Pella, IA) who has a rear grip specialty handgun in 338 Lapua Improved. How is that for an extreme LR handgun?

haroldclark · « **Reply #27 on:** July 30, 2004, 11:44:08 AM »

That has to be one bad dude. Or, he could be unconcious.
Harold