Author Topic: 243 ethical (Read 1396 times)

DAD · « **on:** July 10, 2004, 05:11:42 AM »

I have been watching the old Marlin and H&R forums and now this one. I'M SEEKING INFORMATION BY EXPERIENCE WITH.243 IN THE HANDI-SINGLE SHOT. I'M NOT TRYING TO START A WAR!!! I have been noticing a trend that the Handi-rifle likes the 80-90 gr. weights in the .243 bullets. I have always been taught that the 100gr. was the minimal weight for hunting. I don't hand load so I will have to go with Factory ammo. Does anyone use the factory 100gr. for hunting Whitetail and Black bear? Does the 80-90gr work as good?

Fred M · « **Reply #1 on:** July 10, 2004, 05:49:53 AM »

Dad.
Over the years I had six different 6mm's. Namely 240PSP. 243AI, 6mm-284, 243Win, 244Rem, at present I don't have any 6mm's. I have never been impressed with the performance of any of them on deer. At closer
ranges they are very destructive on game meat and at long range they are not dependable unless you can place the bullet in the neck or head.

I hear lot of folks howling about my statements, but I talk about my experience on big WT deer and Mulies. Not these little jack rabbit type jumpers.

The 243Win is a favorate cartridge with the Inuits (Eskimos) for any game
but the make only head shots on seal and caribou at close range with open sights. I never saw them using scopes. They also use the 223 a lot.

One of my favorate deer rifles is a 7mm-08AI. The handy is made in 7mm-08 and you would be much better off with that caliber. Fred M.

DAD · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2004, 05:58:06 AM »

I do have the 7mm-08, but if true to the Handi-Rifle it will like the 120gr hollow points instead of the 140gr. Don't worry I will take to the range and find out what will be the most accurate. That will be ok for Dear and Black Bear in either the head neck or rib cage under 200yards. I just wanted some real life experiences both good an bad with the .243 in the Handi-Rifle.

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #3 on:** July 10, 2004, 06:40:45 AM »

My Dad used a Remington 7400 in 243 Win with 85gr fodder for years on Whitetail in Georgia (small deer). He never lost one.
If I were hunting the bigger northern Whitetail or Mulies (which I am not

), I think I would choose a 30 caliber.

Ian

MSP Ret · « **Reply #4 on:** July 10, 2004, 07:30:30 AM »

HH congratulations to your father. This thread started as "243 ethical?". The question more often is "Ethical Hunter?". Is seems as if your father was a true sporstsman and hunter who knew the both the limitations and strengths of his chosen weapon. It's the hunter, not the gun, that puts meat on the table and that never loses a deer. It seems that your father was both an ethical and accomplished sportsman and hunter who knew his weapon and what he was doing. We need more like him and it would not matter if your were hunting with a .243 or a howitzer....<><.... :grin:

flintlock · « **Reply #5 on:** July 10, 2004, 07:38:48 AM »

Try the Federal Premium 85gr BTHP...on shoulder shots it will go through both shoulder blades, and will exit on broadside lung shots...It will actually penetrate better than many 100gr loads in this caliber...I've used a .243 since 1980...used to use 100grs...switched a few years back...flintlock

Fred M · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2004, 07:43:55 AM »

Haywire Haywood.
You can never go wrong with a 30 big or small for just about any game animal. I have hunted in Africa with the 7mm-08AI and toke some big plaines animals up to 700lbs using 139gr Interlock bullets and 175gr semi
points Rem. Only one animal toke two shots.

The 139 or 140gr bullets in the 7mm is about as good a deer bullet you can get.

Of course that is no surprise with the reputation of the 7x57 which by the way has wiped out the elephants in South Africa by the farmers.
Fred M.

bgjohn · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2004, 08:02:09 AM »

Mule deer, accross the canyon. 100 gr bullet. Results, "one shot one kill". Magnums? This isn't Alaska and it ain't Africa.
JM

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #8 on:** July 10, 2004, 03:28:19 PM »

Quote from: flintlock

Try the Federal Premium 85gr BTHP...

Exactly what my Dad used. He drove an hour to Macon get them cause the local places didn't used to stock'em. He took neck shots till his eyesight started failing him somewhat then switched to heart/lung in his later years.

Ian

Sourdough · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2004, 11:17:55 PM »

I've been with people that used .243s on Caribou. The distruction of meat was tremendous. 30-06 did about half the damage to meat. Yes the .243 kills, but the distruction is not worth it to me. I have to go with what old Elmer Keith said "Big bullet, big hole", and almost no hemmeraging.

ratherbefishin · « **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2004, 05:34:29 AM »

guns and bullets have no ethics- only humans do.The calibre has nothing to do with it.It;s all about deciding what your limits are.I;d far rather shoot a riflr I KNOW I could shoot well with than a big thumper that I flinched on.Not only that, I wouldn't hesitate to take a shot within my own range, but wouldn't take one say 400 yards away just on the chance of making a hit- with any rifle.There's a huge difererance between a standing broadside shot with a rest and a running shot at any range- especially long range.Deciding when and when not to shoot is where the ethics come in.

marv · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2004, 06:20:43 AM »

ratherbe fishin
I think said it correctly in your last post, it is the person, not the caliber of rifle, I think more animals have been wounded and lost to die a slow death from big calibers (MAG) than any small bore, Just my 2 1/2 centavos. Marv.

ratherbefishin · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2004, 06:39:34 AM »

yah, I knew an old guy who wouldn't let anybody on his property if they were using shot gun and shot- which was what the regs only allowed.He wouldn't give up his old 25-35 no matter waht the law said about it, figured he was born way before the boys were who made the law anyway.
He;d found too many dead deer on his property with pellets in their guts from guys who took shots too far away.They killed the deer alright- next week.However- I'm equally aware that buckshot at close range will dump them in their tracks, very effective under the right conditions- like in swamps where you can't see more than 20 yards.

Fred M · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2004, 06:52:18 AM »

It does not make any difference what caliber you use if can't place a bullet in a vital zone. Nevertheless a bigger caliber will outperform a smaller one. Warren Page who did a lot of development on the 6mm and came up with a superior design with his 240PSP. He considered it a specialist rifle for hunters that know how to shoot accurately. Rem and Win came up with their own design incorporating manufacturing shortcuts and ignored Page's design. Too bad. Except for the 6PPC I have no love affair with the common 6mm's. Fred M.

handirifle · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2004, 08:37:06 AM »

What I continually find interesting is those that swear by the 25-06 and quickly condem the 243. I say the 25's bullets are not heavy enough to make that much difference. Take a look at ballistic charts. It's like comparing the .308 to the 30-06. Same argument. For those that shoot and swear by the 25, I say shoot what works for you, cause if you hit them in the right place they will die quickly.

If we look at balistic tables ONLY these two calibers are twins when using comperable bullets/weights. The 25 has an edge with a slightly heavier bullet (like it's parent the 30-06 over the 308) but this only matters at very long range for retained energy. When the 243 blows through both sides on a broadside shot, it won't matter if the bullet weighed 85gr or 120gr. There isn't enough frontal area difference to amount to a hoot in my book.

The 243 is proven in the hands of an accurate hunter. And to agree with most of the posters here, you do your part and it will do the rest. As for meat damage, shot placement and bullet type make a difference. Never used them, but have been told the partitions don't "splatter" as much meat. Just my $.02

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** July 11, 2004, 08:49:17 AM »

I believe the .243 gets a bad reputation from people using bullets that don't have good integrity and are not designed to penatrate. A good example: 20yrs ago my huntin partner, an excellent shot and ethical hunter, shot a blacktail buck square in the middle of the chest from 50yds with his always-kills-em-dead .243, the buck went over backwards like he'd been shot with a canon, but it got up immediately and ran off, no blood trail and 5 of us never found it in a week of hunting the same area. We're thinkin the bullet must have blew up on contact and never penatrated at all. I don't remember what bullet he was using but I know he'd had them for a long time so it was an old bullet design. He sold the rifle and has been sour on the .243 since. Just my experience and .02 worth.

handirifle · « **Reply #16 on:** July 11, 2004, 09:06:05 AM »

I'd venture to guess what quicktodo said has happened to just about every caliber out there. I KNOW I have read on this or the old NEF forum of guys using 300gr JHP in the 45-70 with almost the exact same result. NO ONE can say the 45-70 is underpowered for deer. But if we use a bullet that is not designed to penetrate OR we load it beyond what it WAS designed for we can get these same results.

I think the hypervelocity craze has some blame to take here. I've read of some loading the 45-70 300gr JHP to 2100+ fps (some even to 2300-2400) and wondering why it exploded on impact. Kinda like using a V-Max bullet on deer at those velocities. Use it at 1800fps like it was designed for and I'll bet it acts like a whole new bullet.

ratherbefishin · « **Reply #17 on:** July 11, 2004, 03:32:00 PM »

as for that frontal shot on the blacktail- I saw one that went down like it was poleaxed with a 25-35, and I saw a good sized mule deer that was shot full frontal that went down- but got up and ran-we did recover it quite some distance away, mainly due to good tracking snow.On skinning it, I discovered the shot was slightly off and went between the rib cage and shoulder exiting right behind the shoulder without hitting anthing vital.That was a 308-considered perfectly adequite for a quick kill.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2004, 03:46:48 PM »

Yup, I've killed several with my .308 BLR, center hits right dead center in the chest, knocks em back several feet and down for good. Jack was dead certain he hit it good and the blood was at the knock down site to prove it but that was all, no blood trail at all for more than a few feet and in the brush, there are no tracks. He has shot a .270 or '06 ever since when he's not muzzleloadin.

TOGO · « **Reply #19 on:** July 11, 2004, 04:26:17 PM »

I don't understand why some folks think the 243 is destructive to the meat, I have been hunting with the 243 cal. for years, 100gr. bullets work everytime, I usually aim for the bread basket not the shoulder.

ratherbefishin · « **Reply #20 on:** July 11, 2004, 05:14:37 PM »

I don't know about everybody else, but I shoot my BRNO 22 way better than anything else- mainly because I know it isn't going to kick- and therefore I don't flinch.On that basis, I think you're better off using a lighter calibre if you can shoot it more acurately.I rememer tellung my gunsmith I was looking for a 338 to go moose hunting, and he asked me what was wrong with my 6.5x55 swede?He pointed out that I was used to the 6.5, and that I would likely be better of shooting a lighter calibre gun ifI could shoot it accurately than a new heavy calibre gun I wasn't used to- and would possably flinch.His concept was , sitdown, or use a rest, shootingsticks, whatever, take one careful shot behind the shoulder and wait 20 minutes before following up.