Author Topic: Can a Contender / G-2 Stand Toe to Toe....... (Read 1135 times)

xphunter · « **on:** June 29, 2004, 10:50:36 AM »

with the other big boy specialty handguns?
What do you guys think about this?

Do you think the Contender (without risking a stretched frame) can basically stand toe to toe with an Encore, XP, Competitor, Striker or MOA for accuracy, bullet drop & windrift @ LR?

I'm not talking about hunting here, but trajectory and and wind drift.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 29, 2004, 10:59:49 AM »

No, that is why the made the Encore and the other frames you mentioned. If it could there would not be a need for the Encore.

xphunter · « **Reply #2 on:** June 29, 2004, 12:22:43 PM »

I do agree that the other actions I mentioned can out-run the Ole Contender or the new G-2, but not by as much as one would think with the right set-up.

Check-out the potential of what a 1-7 twist 222 Remington Magnum Improved can do out of a 16-17 inch barrel shooting 70-80 grain Berger or Sierra VLD's.

Berger's 80 grain VLD has a BC of .489
If you can push that bullet between 2600-2800 FPS from the muzzle you will equal or out perform most specialty handgun cartridges (not all of them).
Compare the BC's of most of the bullets we typically shoot and the MV's we are getting.

My point is that the little ole Contender, even though it is a weaker action can make a really good showing against the stronger actions if fed correctly.

You can get cartridge, barrel, twist, bullet combos in the larger/stronger rigs that will out-run the cartridge mentioned.
But if you check out the specs it is pretty impressive for a Contender / G-2.
To top that, you could have the same barrel with a 1-7 twist and even top the 222 Rem Mag Imp's performance safely.

KYODE · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2004, 04:09:08 AM »

xp.....i'd say the encore/contender would only be slightly behind the big boy bolt guns in accuracy. i'd think it would not be too noticeable in "the hunting fields". i'm saying that without having used a bolt gun although. would you agree?....or am i way off?
i'd say you can find chamberings that would only be a half step behind the bolt guns in most power levels also. close enough in most hunting situations. at extreme circumstances....i think most would agree the bolt guns have an advavtage :? maybe such as bencrest shooting competition, really long yardage, etc. where every advantage helps.

do i make a lick of sense :lol:

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2004, 05:06:23 AM »

I think some of you guys are comparing apples and oranges. We are talking about handguns not carbines or shortened rifles! I consider the 15" Encore and the other guns with 16-17" barels in the carbine class, not handgun! The XP and other guns with short barrels and bolt actions are nothing more than shortened rifles. If I want to compare my G2 or Contender with another gun I look at handguns like Rugers or S&Ws, etc.

The question asked should be about these guns not the other carbine class ones. If that is the case then the G2 and Contender is far and away the winner.

Just MHO of course. :wink:

Major · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2004, 06:09:37 AM »

What Lawful Larry said goes for me too!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2004, 07:03:51 AM »

Quote from: Lawful Larry

I think some of you guys are comparing apples and oranges. We are talking about handguns not carbines or shortened rifles! I consider the 15" Encore and the other guns with 16-17" barels in the carbine class, not handgun! The XP and other guns with short barrels and bolt actions are nothing more than shortened rifles. If I want to compare my G2 or Contender with another gun I look at handguns like Rugers or S&Ws, etc.

The question asked should be about these guns not the other carbine class ones. If that is the case then the G2 and Contender is far and away the winner.

Just MHO of course. :wink:

Encore comes with 10 and 12 inch barrels. I think the Encore will beat out the contender. IMHO

xphunter · « **Reply #7 on:** June 30, 2004, 10:08:43 AM »

I don't think there is anything wrong with comparing revolvers (straight-wall cartridges) with the same type of cartridge in a Contender. The Contender can handle most straight wall cases well (with the exception of the higher pressure ones like the 454 Casuall).
Is a non-carbine class barrel 14 inches and under?
Or
A barrel 14 inches or under that shoot straight-walled cartridges?

Even in a 10, 12, or 14 inch Contender barrel, the cartridge, twist, and bullet I mentioned is very close to what a 10, 12, or 14 inch barrel (in any cartridge) can do in an Encore.
I am comparing bottle neck cartridges here, not straight-wall.
In fact, it was never my intent to compare a bottle-neck cartridge to a straight-wall case in the first place.

Is a Contender's, Encores, Striker's, MOA's, and XP's a "shortened rifle" all the time?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 30, 2004, 10:40:01 AM »

If it has a pistol grip it is a pistol. I don't get into the nit picking of 14 inch and above is a carbine. A pistol is a pistol even with a long barrel. I rifle and carbine is shoulder shot. A rifle cartridge does not make a pistol a small carbine. IMHO.

xphunter · « **Reply #9 on:** June 30, 2004, 01:05:14 PM »

Kyode,
Yes, you make a "lick of sense."

xphunter · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2004, 01:23:58 PM »

Redhawk,
FWIW I never assumed you considered specialty handguns with barrels in the 14-16 inch range carbines, rifles or shortened rifles.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2004, 06:37:14 PM »

Quote from: xphunter

Redhawk,
FWIW I never assumed you considered specialty handguns with barrels in the 14-16 inch range carbines, rifles or shortened rifles.

My post was for Lawful Larry. I can see where you were coming from. I agree with you.

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #12 on:** July 02, 2004, 01:46:17 PM »

I don't care what is said, I'm stickin' with the apples and oranges. When ya compare the Encore and Contender in the calibers that are comparable to both guns, where is the advantage -- where is the difference? They are basically the same guns with one being beefed up to handle larger calibers. Where the Encore goes on to bigger things is in the ability to handle those larger calibers.

As to the difference of straight walled and bottle neck cases, I don't get that one. What about the .44, .444, .450, .45-70 and on and on ad nauseum, in rifles???

I think the feds have the carbine lengths down pat. Don't they give us guidelines on what is and is not a rifle or handgun? Are there any legal rifles in a carbine configuration less then 16.5 inches? I am sure there is a standard for carbine lengths somewhere.

I must admit I do not know myself. :eek:

myronman3 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 02, 2004, 05:22:55 PM »

with the criteria you set, sure it can. lets take a 223 contender with barrel length of 14 inches. now lets take a encore with a barrel length of the same length (assume it is custom made) and same caliber. i defy anyone to explain why the encore will definately be more accurate. it may be, it may not. each gun is different. some are shooters and others arent. and there are so many variables that i could go on for days. but unless you set different criteria; the answer is most definatly yes it can.

xphunter · « **Reply #14 on:** July 12, 2004, 07:02:24 AM »

Plan to get the barrel, dies, etc. in a couple of weeks.
Speaking from a Contender/G-2 set-up only, can you think of any other cartridge set-ups that would be as flat shooting as a 1-7 222 Rem Mag Imp. shooting 80 grain VLD's?

K2 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2004, 07:30:52 AM »

The TC is not as strong an action as some of the others you mentioned. Bolt actions tend to be the most accurate on average. If you are shooting big game it makes little difference as JDJ has proven many times. Bullet drop and wind drift has to do with the velocity and the BC of the projectile. At handgun hunting distances it is a minor concern.

Buy what you like, you are the one that needs to make the decision.

Quote from: xphunter

with the other big boy specialty handguns?
What do you guys think about this?

Do you think the Contender (without risking a stretched frame) can basically stand toe to toe with an Encore, XP, Competitor, Striker or MOA for accuracy, bullet drop & windrift @ LR?

I'm not talking about hunting here, but trajectory and and wind drift.

xphunter · « **Reply #16 on:** July 16, 2004, 10:28:58 AM »

Been doing a little more research and have realized that probably the ideal would be the cartridge I mentioned with a 1-6.5 twist which would stabilize the JLK 90 grain VLD, plus it would do well with VLD's all the way down to upper 70's. With a BC of .570 (2600-2700 fps) it would be highly competitive with even the larger bores/higher pressure cartridges that you can chamber in the Encore.
Sort of hard to imagine a 90 grain 22 caliber bullet though, isn't it?

Hopefully I will have the 222 RM Imp (1-7 twist) ready to go for the Sept. 11th 1,000 yard shoot.

Reed1911 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 16, 2004, 12:33:15 PM »

WOHA! Bolt gun pistols more accurate than a T/C?! Come on now...how far can I take this and prove it wrong? Caliber to caliber, no problem. We can throw the custom work out, and as long as I can load the ammo I'll beat you every time. I know that's a pretty inflammatory statement, but what the single shot allows me to be is #1 not limited to a mag length #2 without the action of a moving bolt, I have less difference in shot-to-shot setup. By that I mean where I only have an extractor and a breechface to contend with, the bolt has a very long (relatively) path to follow and set in each time. In some cases a bolt is better (i.e. any type of big or mean game hunting) but for sheer accuracy, I'll take a single shot every time.

xphunter · « **Reply #18 on:** July 16, 2004, 02:10:32 PM »

It is an interesting thought.
My bolt pistol is both a single-shot action (more rigid), hence it does not flex as much as a contender or Encore. I am not limited by oal length either. Lock-time is faster than with an exposed hammer like the Thompson products. If you go to a rear grip XP it gets even better.
Cartridge headspace is more of an issue with a break-open action hence inconsistent lock-up of frame to barrel at times. It is a slower system in that to reload you have to move it off the bags, where with a bolt rig you have more consistency off the bags (important for group accuracy) XP's can easily be free-floated and don't have the vertical stringing problem that come with some TC set-ups.
If break-opens are inherently more accurate than bolts why don't we see them more often in bench competition? I like and promote Thompson products, but bolt Specialty Handguns like the XP-100 are superior to the point that even BR shooters will take the action and turn it into a benchrest rifle. TC's can shoot some beautiful groups, but when you compare apples with apples in bottleneck cartridges whether it be with the Contender/G-2 or Encore a Single-Shot XP-100 is a stronger more rigid action and inherently more accurate (sheer accuracy) given the same quality of barrel, chambering etc.
I don't think that akihmsa spoke incorrectly.