Author Topic: 420HC steel (Read 2337 times)

Joel · « **on:** August 14, 2004, 05:45:14 AM »

Seems this version of this large family of barely hardenable steels(for the most part) is appearing everywhere. Of the 10 versions of 420 that I've read about only one,the 10th had any appreciable amounts of carbon. In doing a search on 420HC, comments made by a Buck Knives rep say that it is a martensitic steel with a minimum specified amount of carbon. Interestingly enough, he doesn't mention the amount. Usually hardened to an Rc of 58 etc. Also there is no official AISI or SAE designation for 420HC; it appears to be a generic term used by the knife manufacturers. Anyone out there been using a blade made out of this steel? Also anyone have any idea as to what the metallurigical content of this steel is,i.e. just what is the carbon level? I have a strong suspicion that it's a medicore steel at best, compared to many of the higher end stainless steels available, but can't really say for sure at this point when folks ask me about it. The entire 420 family of steels that I know about have only one virtue(from the user's point of view) and that is a high chromium content making them suitable for such things as dive and fishing knives. Any further data would be appreciated.

TNrifleman · « **Reply #1 on:** August 14, 2004, 10:42:06 AM »

I can't answer your questions about 420 steel. I have two observations though; first, I have used Buck knives for over 30 years and have found them to be of excellent quality, including the blade steel. I understand they use what they call 420HC. Second, I have also tried other brands of knives which used "420" of another type. These blades have been marginal in performance; ie: edge retention, hardness, ease of sharpening, etc. I am not sure what the difference is in Buck and some others, but I can tell a real difference in the blade steel.

e3ck · « **Reply #2 on:** August 14, 2004, 03:40:15 PM »

420HC.....C. 0.42
Mn. 0.42
P. .019
S. .002
Si. .0.49
Cr. 12.69
Rc.58

Joel · « **Reply #3 on:** August 14, 2004, 08:45:27 PM »

TN,
Until Buck started advertising 420HC, they used a stainless steel known as 425M. It's somewhat similar to 440A, with a carbon content of around .5. I"ve an old Buck 110 that my dad bought for me in 1968 when I was heading to Nam, and that I carried as a work knife until I retired in 84. Great knife, took a heck of an edge. Haven't had a chance to compare that Buck with a new version made using 420HC, and was curious if anyone else has. Based on the analysis that e3ck was kind enough to provide, I'm even more curious. To me, it looks like a pretty low grade(read cheap) stainless, but perhaps I'm mistaken and after proper heat treat/temper it's at least as good as 425M is/was. Be nice if someone has done some serious work with the stuff and is willing to share their opinions.

Don Buckbee · « **Reply #4 on:** August 15, 2004, 03:05:38 AM »

Joel,
Paul Bos would be able to provide all of the info on their newer steel. He did all of Buck's heat treating up to the time when they bought their own heat treating equipment back around 1969. He set up their equipment and then went in business doing custom maker's blades. He kept on with Buck doing the heat treating of all of their tooling. His e-mail address is at Buck knives dot com, so I assume he still has a full time business relationship with them. Paul has written several articles on heat treating for trade journals. I send my blades to Paul for heat treating. They come back done right and they are STRAIGHT... I don't have to screw around straightening them.... :grin:
I'm also sure that the newer steel Buck uses is easier to work, and yet provide an acceptable edge, along with good looks. In that business, the bottom line is everything $$$$.
I used to drive through Port Matilda many times back in the 50's on my way from Harrisburg to Center County..
Take care,
Don

TNrifleman · « **Reply #5 on:** August 15, 2004, 03:52:40 PM »

Joel,

Do you happen to know when Buck changed blade steel? All of my Buck Knives are over 10 years old. Perhaps I have the 425 steel. If so, I don't have any field experience with 420HC from Buck. :oops:

Joel · « **Reply #6 on:** August 15, 2004, 07:57:39 PM »

Tn,
I'm guessing here, but seems like it's only been in the last 3 years or so; maybe even not that long. Even then, the switch seemed gradual because I can remember some of their newer knives listed with 420HC, but the 110 and some of their old standby's apparently still used 425M. Probably had a stock of it they had to deplete. Your's must be all 425M.