Author Topic: WIN. MODEL 94 -QUESTION (Read 1040 times)

dave hall · « **on:** July 19, 2004, 10:06:00 AM »

I'M LOOKING AT AN OLDER MODEL 94 TRAPPER IN 30-30 .THE DATE OF THE WIN. IS 1981-82.MY QUESTION IS .IS THE RIFLE STRONG ENOUGH TO TAKE BEEF UP LOADS IN MY NEW BARNES BOOK.THANKS :-)

Catfish · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2004, 05:33:22 AM »

The higher power load for the .30-30 should be shot only in bolt gun as they are alot stronger that the lever actions.

John Y Cannuck · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2004, 04:13:53 PM »

There are not a lot of bolt gun 30-30's out there, as compared to lever guns, so, I doubt Barnes is listing a load specifically for them. I don't have their latest book, so how about posting the load, so we can see how stiff it is?
Lever guns are a lot stronger than bolt gun guys would have us believe, but they are not bolt guns.

dave hall · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2004, 05:41:51 PM »

THE HIGHEST VELOCITY FOR THE 150 XFN IS 2317-34grs OF AA2520
RECOMMENDED POWDER-RL12 MAXED-33-VEL.2229
IMR4895 MAXED-33-VEL.2233 :-)

MY FRIEND HAS A LOAD I DO'NT KNOW THE GR'S OF POWDER IS .WHAT I DO KNOW IS ITS (BLC-2/150 GR BULLET/2200fps)THIS POWDER IS NOT LISTED IN MY BARNES BOOK.HE SAY'S THIS LOAD FLATTENS THE PRIMERS.THAT MIGHT BE TO HOT.

leverfan · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2004, 08:09:03 PM »

Quote from: dave hall

THE HIGHEST VELOCITY FOR THE 150 XFN IS 2317-34grs OF AA2520
RECOMMENDED POWDER-RL12 MAXED-33-VEL.2229
IMR4895 MAXED-33-VEL.2233 :-)

MY FRIEND HAS A LOAD I DO'NT KNOW THE GR'S OF POWDER IS .WHAT I DO KNOW IS ITS (BLC-2/150 GR BULLET/2200fps)THIS POWDER IS NOT LISTED IN MY BARNES BOOK.HE SAY'S THIS LOAD FLATTENS THE PRIMERS.THAT MIGHT BE TO HOT.

I don't have the Barnes manual, but the other manuals I checked stop short of the loads you list for AA2520 and IMR 4895. In fact, they stop about 2 grains short of those loads, so I would work up with caution, using a chronograph to keep track of how the loads react to 0.5 grain increases in powder. I also check cases with a micrometer, before and after firing, to keep track of the cases' reaction to pressure. This doesn't give you an absolute gauge of safe pressures, but it's one more tool. It wouldn't hurt anything to just stop short of those loads by a couple of grains, because the 30-30 isn't going to turn into a laser beam, anyway.

Your friend's flat primers could be caused by lots of things, not just hot loads. He should have his rifle checked for excessive headspace, measure his cases with an accurate micrometer before and after firing, to see if the case shows signs of high pressure, or maybe just switch to a different primer/powder combo. Lots of things can lead to flat primers, so it's really hard to say.

John Y Cannuck · « **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2004, 12:21:31 AM »

Quote from: dave hall

THE HIGHEST VELOCITY FOR THE 150 XFN IS 2317-34grs OF AA2520
RECOMMENDED POWDER-RL12 MAXED-33-VEL.2229
IMR4895 MAXED-33-VEL.2233 :-)

MY FRIEND HAS A LOAD I DO'NT KNOW THE GR'S OF POWDER IS .WHAT I DO KNOW IS ITS (BLC-2/150 GR BULLET/2200fps)THIS POWDER IS NOT LISTED IN MY BARNES BOOK.HE SAY'S THIS LOAD FLATTENS THE PRIMERS.THAT MIGHT BE TO HOT.

From Hornadys manual fourth edition
150 gr bullet

AA2250 max 32.3 grains
R12 Max 33.3 grains
IMR4895 not listed

Hogdon Data manual #25 lists IMR 4895 for the 150 grain bullet at 34 grains.

What does all that mean? why are they posting different maximums?
Valid questions for a new reloader.
Powder/bullet companies use different test guns/ sometimes different methods, and sometimes different bullet types.
IMO stay with the lowest max load listed, and start 10% below that.
Barnes bullets have different bore friction than other bullets. I checked with an earlier Barnes manual, and confirmed the data you posted, they have not changed it between manuals. There is no mistake likely.
However all prudent reloaders will tell you with good reason: DO NOT START WITH A MAX LOAD.
The 30-30 doesn't usually respond well to max loads anyway, groups tend to open. (My personal exception has been R12, it shoots quite well at max for me in a 1971 '94 Winchester Same load shoots like crap in two older guns)

The short answer, is that these loads are PROBABLY safe in your rifle. They are NOT "bolt gun" only loads.

dave hall · « **Reply #6 on:** July 21, 2004, 04:47:32 AM »

THANKS GUYS
I'M NOT GOING TO START WITH MAX. LOADS ,BUT IF ONE SHOOT WELL OUT OF THIS 94' I'M GETTING. I JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF IT WOULD HOLD THE PRESSURES. I'VE NEVER OWNED A 94 THIS OLD.
:-)

John Y Cannuck · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2004, 06:22:00 AM »

1980's old??? Not in a '94. 1980s guns are modern.

I have a 1910, a 1948, and a 1971. The newer ones do take heavier loads better, but they are no where near as smooth.

Old Griz · « **Reply #8 on:** July 29, 2004, 07:21:41 AM »

:cb2: Who does make a bolt gun in .30-30? Or for that matter, who did? I've never heard of one (but that doesn't mean a heck of a lot!!!).

257Robt · « **Reply #9 on:** July 29, 2004, 12:19:43 PM »

Savage/Stevens and Remington (788) made bolt rifles in 30-30. The Remmy's are hard to find, but the Savage/Stevens should come up on the gun auction sites. The Savage/Stevens are a dime a dozen type rifle. From what I have heard, very few shoot well. I do know of one guy who hand loaded Speer (?) 130 grain flat nose bullets for his and he claimed that it shot very good.

Snowshoe · « **Reply #10 on:** July 29, 2004, 02:21:09 PM »

The Savages shoot just fine, but some take a little work to get to that point. My wife has a Savage and a Stevens in .30-30 and my handloads shoot 1" groups in these rifles. We use 125g, and 150g psp bullets, and have no problem shooting 200 yard targets.

Buffalogun · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2004, 03:35:17 PM »

Old Griz,

A cousin of mine has a bolt 30-30 that is labeled "Coast to Coast". And, my Winchester 94 was made in 1965 and shoots just fine. Took a doe with it last year.

Buffalogun

unspellable · « **Reply #12 on:** August 06, 2004, 01:49:06 AM »

Coast to Coast is a hardware chain (Still in business.) that sold relabled firearms. I have a Coast to Coast shotgun made by Mossberg. I don't know who they bought rifles from, but wouldn't be surprised to learn that Savage/Stevens was a supplier.