Author Topic: Zoom Binos? (Read 572 times)

mtnman1 · « **on:** July 30, 2004, 04:54:17 AM »

I'm just getting back into hunting recently and I know absolutely nothing about Binos except what I've been reading here. As a kid when I was hunting shots were typically no more that 80-100 yards and I had great eyes. Now I find that I can't see a damn thing anymore so I need all the help I can get.

I'm curious about Zoom Binos. I've read numerous times that nothing more that 8x or 10x should be considered when choosing binos. What about Zoom binos?

I ran across a pair of B&L Discovery 8x24x50's and was considering these till I started reading all the info here. Are these not a good choice and why not? Seems like you'd be getting the best of both worlds?

I appreciate all the advice I can get...

Thanks

goose7856 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2004, 02:42:46 PM »

I have a pair of zoom bons that are 8x-32x by 50mm. I like them alot. The were inexpensive and seem to have good optics (i have never compared them to expensive binos), The only problem with the high magnification is you need a steady rest. But just to scope out the land you can use them........when in the stand I am just going to set them up against the side........and zoom in from there. They seem to be the perfect buy for me........kinda like getting a pair of binos (low magnification [8-12] ) and a spotting scope ( High Mag [14-32] ) all in one package..........they seem perfect for my needs.

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2004, 05:46:10 PM »

There are darn few who can hand hold 10X effectively. The more you wiggle that image the less likely you are to see what you're looking for. ALL zoom binoculars are poor optically compared to even mid priced binoculars. Very poor idea. I'd advise you to forget it.

If hunting in thick cover a 6x30 is really the best I've used. Wide FOV and plenty of power and definition for up close use. Mine are Steiners. I have a pair of Bushnell Legend binoculars in 7x42 I like better than my Leicas. I highly recommend the Bushnell Legend binos for those on a budget or even for those who aren't.

GB

goose7856 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2004, 06:18:36 PM »

Quote

The only problem with the high magnification is you need a steady rest. But just to scope out the land you can use them........when in the stand I am just going to set them up against the side........and zoom in from there.

Thats why at the high magnification i set the bons on the side of the stand. gives me a steel rest for the binos. If that aint going to keep them steady nothing is!

I dont think mine are bad optically at all......ive looked through the leupold wind river series and they dont really impress me that much.......i mean glass is glass is glass......yea it may make it a lil better.....but once i make sure its a deer.....and i want to shoot it say hello to my scope. I dont use binos that much....not like the people in the mid west that are glued to there binos..........

Quote

Now I find that I can't see a damn thing anymore so I need all the help I can get.

Thats like saying he needs to be able to get up close and personal to be able to see the animal clearly.......and those high end binos dont even make zoom binos......

sry greybeard but this is one of the first times i am going to have to disagree with you........u dont get whats best all the time.......u get what fits ur needs to the best of its ability.........if he wants to get the zooms let him get it........b/c it does help me be able to see things better...........And plus it (mine) zooms down to 8x so it can be just like every other bino on the market.........it just has the ability for me to count the number of hairs on his nose. :grin: Sry to disagree but i believe it is best to get what fits ur needs........just like i have read "u" dont need more than a 3-9 power for a scope.....some people just need other things.......

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2004, 07:06:41 PM »

Quote from: mtnman1

I'm just getting back into hunting recently and I know absolutely nothing about Binos except what I've been reading here. As a kid when I was hunting shots were typically no more that 80-100 yards and I had great eyes. Now I find that I can't see a damn thing anymore so I need all the help I can get.

I'm curious about Zoom Binos. I've read numerous times that nothing more that 8x or 10x should be considered when choosing binos. What about Zoom binos?

I ran across a pair of B&L Discovery 8x24x50's and was considering these till I started reading all the info here. Are these not a good choice and why not? Seems like you'd be getting the best of both worlds?

I appreciate all the advice I can get...

Thanks

It would help if we knew what kind of hunting you're doing...a still hunter in heavy cover doesn't need a lot of power but having glass that is self focusing is a great feature as is a wide field of view. GB's recommendation of the 6x30 steiner is right on for this kind of hunting or even for a tree stand hunter. The need for the higher power just isn't needed. If you're hunting more open areas of the west, higher power in the 7x-8x is more appropriate for your needs. GB is right about the 10x, that is considered the highest mag that a human can hand hold steady enough to benefit from the magnification, 8x is better and what I consider my top magnification to be useful for hunting. I now use 8x40 Nikon Monarch ATB glass and love it, it's light enough to carry all day on a bino harness and bright enough in the deepest of woods. I used to carry the steiner 6x30 but started to include bird watching in my hunting and they don't close focus, otherwise I'd still be using them. I've had 2 different pair of zoom binos and neither was comfortable to use for very long, they caused considerable eye strain due to the poor alignment of the 2 tubes, neither was bargain priced and they were both basically a waste of money as far as optic quality goes. I've read a lot about optics in the last few years and have never seen any recommendations for hunting use of zoom binos. If you want something with more power, I'd get a compact spotting scope for that purpose only. If you use binos a lot when hunting, do yourself a favor and treat your eyes to good glass, you'll never regret that decision, but I do honestly believe you'll regret the purchase of any zoom bino for hunting related purposes. Also, get the bino harness, I love mine and it makes you forget you're carrying a 20-30oz bino around. They're a bit different to get use to at first, but what a difference they make in how they carry. I believe mine are made by Crooked Horn Outfitters but Cabelas also sells em.
http://www.crookedhorn.com/indexbino.htm

mtnman1 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 01, 2004, 03:53:39 AM »

OK, so the Zoom binos aren't a great choice. That's why I came to you guys. I guess it's partly just me, but my eyes just aren't as good as they were when I was a kid. I still managed to hold a decent 1" group with my little ole 3x9 Nikon at 200 yards at the range the other day. I've been going out about once every 2 weeks since spring to get back to the point where I'm comfortable shooting again. It just seems like it takes a lot longer to focus these days and I have to concentrate a lot more.

I hunt primarily in Texas, but that's a pretty diverse terrain. Woods & brush to wide open flats. I guess I'm looking for a decent mid-priced pair of binos that can serve in all situations. That's why I was looking at the Zoom binos.

So of all the mid-range binos like the B&L Discoveries, Pentax DCF, Nikon Monarch, Bushnell Elites and others who makes the best binos? I'm thinkin that I need to get at least 8x based on the diverse hunting possibilities. I heard what you said Greybeard about the 10X being the highest power that anyone can hold steady, are there different recommendations about brands depending on whether it's a 6x vs. 8x vs. 10x?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** August 01, 2004, 05:00:34 AM »

Maybe the thread below will help....The Nikon Monarch ATB is an exellent bino, I have read of a lot of new bino owners choosing this bino because it has excellent glass and it is priced right. The current model is an 8x42 and is priced at $240-$290. Although I haven't used any of the current crop of Bushnells, a friend has a pair and loves em. Graybeard has checked em out thoroughly and I don't think you can go wrong using his recommendations. A good source is Jon at The Optic Zone, he's a first class guy and will serve you well in your optic needs, he's got great prices and the fastest, best service going, I'd give him a call if you have particular questions concerning any model, he carries both Bushnell and Nikons. Good luck to you in your hunting, Tim
www.theopticzone.com

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=34897

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** August 01, 2004, 12:24:51 PM »

Ah the bliss of innocence. I've run across many a person who had a $35 pair of elcheapo binoculars who thought they had the best bino made. That they couldn't see thru them and that they were badly out of collimation was of no importance. Anyone who "think" that any cheap zoom bino is "good" is fooling themselves and no one else.

There is no such thing as a "self focus" bino. Or for that matter a "constant focus" bino. They don't exist. All these binos are doing is making your eyes do the focusing work rather than having an adjustment on them to do it. Can you say CHEAP?

Buy what you want. It really matters not to me in the least. I give you the best advice I can based on 45 years experience using optics and having made my living working on them for many years. Do with that advice as you wish. It's free so you're not out any money if you don't take it. I gave it freely so I'm out no money for it either.

As to the question asked near the end there of what to get. I have little personal experience with Nikon or Pentax binos, only what I've gained looking thru those owned by others I've hunted with or shot with on the range. You couldn't give me any of them I've seen so far for free. Maybe they weren't the best those companies make, dunno. Just know for my use I'd not take them for free.

I had an old Pre Wind River Leupold 10x40 with individual focus (my personal preference) that were great. That particular bino cost well over double what the others made at the time by Leupold did and for good reason. My oldest son lost them in the woods. The Steiners are fine binos for a reasonable price. The Bushnell Legend is really unbelieveable for the price. I can't speak to why but mine are prefered over my Leicas as they are clearer. Maybe not brighter but for sure clearer.

Were it my money and my eyes I'd buy the Legend. Come to think of it I did.

GB

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** August 01, 2004, 01:17:26 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard

There is no such thing as a "self focus" bino. Or for that matter a "constant focus" bino. They don't exist. All these binos are doing is making your eyes do the focusing work rather than having an adjustment on them to do it. Can you say CHEAP?

GB

Greybeard, the "self focusing" bino I was speaking of is the Steiner 6x30, maybe the wrong term, Steiner calls it Autofocus,
but once focused to your eyes at each ocular lens they are focused at all ranges and don't require any other adjustment for use. And are not cheap, not by my dollar estimation, anyway!

http://outdoor-headquarters.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=od&Category_Code=steiner

GBO MGMT · « **Reply #9 on:** August 01, 2004, 06:38:27 PM »

The Steiner 6x30 is an INDIVIDUAL FOCUS binocular if it is the same as the one I have. Both eye pieces have diopter scales on them marked plus and minus about 4 if memory serves me correctly.

BUT they are NOT intended to be used as you've described even IF Steiner thinks they are. Those eye pieces are to be focused for the distance at which you are using them. True you can set them at infinity and your eyes can then be forced to do the focus for you but that is straining your eyes and is NOT the way that style of focus is supposed to work. They are much less sensitive it seems to depth of field than are center focus binos.

That's one reason I like my Bushnell's so much mroe than the Leicas. The Liecas are so sensitive it is almost impossible to truly have them in proper focus and when they are it is over a depth of less than 10'. Change that far from target and refocus is needed. Thus they get no use and likely will one day be sold as useless in my world.

Most binoculars called Permafocus or some such by the maker really have no means of focusing the binos and your eyes must do it all. IF your Steiners like mine have focusing eye pieces you really are supposed to use them to focus the binos.

GB

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** August 01, 2004, 07:16:29 PM »

Yup, that's them! IIRC, they're the military marine, paid $225 for em. Love em, have had them for 10yrs or so, never changed the focus since I got em unless they get bumped, I marked em for that reason or if someone else uses em for a bit, I can reset em for me. The "autofocus" feature is a bit tiring but they still work very well for woods hunting when you're not doing too much at a time, just a few seconds at a time. I don't think I'd like em for extended use as in glassing for mulies in open terrain, though. I didn't see em at Jon's or at the Steiner web site, so it appears they don't make the 6x30 anymore, just the bigger models.