Author Topic: Is silhouette shooting more popular than . . . (Read 1121 times)

longwinters · « **on:** August 02, 2004, 03:33:20 PM »

Is silhouette shooting more popular than benchrest or "military style" (prone, standing, kneeling,sitting) shooting? If so, is this a cycle that shooting goes thru or has it been since its inception?

Long

chunter · « **Reply #1 on:** August 02, 2004, 03:46:29 PM »

I doubt it. I would bet that there is a lot less people shooting silhouette than the other types of competition due to the difficulty of the game. Very rarely do you see someone walk into to this sport and hit over half of the animals the first time they shoot. This sport is definitely an ego buster, it really allows you to see through all the bull that has been known to surround the sporting world.

With that in mind we are always trying to bring new shooters in, it just takes a lot more work and encouragement than most people are willing to give. However, it seems like we might be slowly making a come back. The funny thing is, our rifle silhouette group doesn't even have a dedicated publication.

Chunter

longwinters · « **Reply #2 on:** August 02, 2004, 03:49:48 PM »

I wondered because there are so many more posts on this forum than the competitive shooting forum.

Long

shootingpaul · « **Reply #3 on:** August 02, 2004, 03:57:53 PM »

hello,
I dont know if it is more popular, but for sure it is superrior, I gave myself a lot of thinking about this game and I came to the conclusion that it is one of the (if not the) hardest one to master. I base my opinion on all feedback from other shooters and my own experience. I have seen many excellent and top class bulls eye shooters that only made AA class in the silhouette. I have seen many shooters quit silhouette and try different disciplines (like a bench rest etc) because they have not been strong enough to succeed. In 22 for example you have to hit off hand a target that i sonly 2 1/2 inch up and down (who cares for the lenght, if your elevation is not good - even if it is going to be 2 feet long - you will still miss it). so 2 1/2 inch - well - no problem - except you have to do it - with the rifle which was practicly designed to be shooting at 50 meters!
well 22 LR In my opinion was only designed for that, then for longer distances they made 22 magnum. so you are shooting targets at the distance that the equipment is pushed to max. etc etc
I am getting carried away here, bottom line is that from all the shooters that tried it only elite is sticking with it.
so why dont you join us ?
Regards,
Pawel

chunter · « **Reply #4 on:** August 02, 2004, 04:05:43 PM »

I think that this forum is used a lot because this is one of the main venues for the silhouette shooters to communicate. We don't really have much more that gives shooters an option to ask questions and find answers from shooters all over the world.

There are two or three websites out their dedicated to silhouette, however, this is really the answer that the silhouette shooters have to fast answers and information.

tirador · « **Reply #5 on:** August 02, 2004, 07:09:58 PM »

longwinters, in my opinion silhouette shooting is more popular if you consider all the different disciplines it includes, starting with air rifles and ending with the the latest one which is Cowboy lever action rifle silhouette.
If you check the latest issue of Shooting Sports USA you will be able to compare the amount of HP VS. Silhouette matches held and I would say they are about equal but if you only consider HP VS. SB/HP Rifle silhouette then there is no contest and the reason I would say is the difficulty of shooting rifles off-hand.
Another reason why I say Silhouette shooting is more popular is because HP 3 position shooting is practiced mainly here in the US and Silhouette shooting is practiced world wide. In Mexico where the sport of Siluetas Metalicas was born unless shooters get involved in International type competition if they want to shoot rifles they have to shoot silhouettes.

Steel killer · « **Reply #6 on:** August 03, 2004, 02:11:30 AM »

Be honest most of us don't shoot 3 position because when we lay down our belly's don't let us get close to the rifle.

If I got into a good sitting position,and stayed there long enough to fire a stage, you would need a chain hoist to get me back up.

Besides they don't have pretty shooting vest like we do. They also shoot ugly guns. You don't see red white and blue stocks at there matches.

Steel killer

mikek · « **Reply #7 on:** August 03, 2004, 04:28:54 AM »

Quote from: shootingpaul

hello,
I dont know if it is more popular, but for sure it is superrior, I gave myself a lot of thinking about this game and I came to the conclusion that it is one of the (if not the) hardest one to master.

I truely believe all shooting sports a hard in their own way. In example in benchrest you don't even begin to place in the top ten until you are shooting <.250 aggs, this ain't no small task. Same with score shooting... drop a point and your out. I do agree completely with chunter's assesment of those who talk the talk but can't walk the walk. Before I started shooting competitively I thought I stunk at shooting by what my buddies would claim they could shoot (1/4" groups all day long or 3/4" groups off hand). I have to say shooting silhouette looks fun and I keep trying to get out and shoot a match but between school, running my buisiness, working a part time job, and traveling to shoot some registered BR matches time is a hard thing to come by at this point in my life.

lucho · « **Reply #8 on:** August 03, 2004, 05:16:37 AM »

I talked to Greg Connors a couple of months age about the popularity of Silhouettes. And we come in second or third.

HighPower is by far the most popular (in the US) probably by a factor of 3

Trap is also up there (but may not be considered a rifle sport)

Then Silhouettes (HP and smallbore combined)

I have shot some HighPower matchs and have to agree with what has been said, Silouettes is much harder. Especially hunter class.

Lets face it: all off hand, 9lb rifle, 2lb trigger, and 500 meters. That is tough.

Lucho

crazyjjk · « **Reply #9 on:** August 03, 2004, 07:38:00 AM »

Quote from: Steel killer

Be honest most of us don't shoot 3 position because when we lay down our belly's don't let us get close to the rifle.

If I got into a good sitting position,and stayed there long enough to fire a stage, you would need a chain hoist to get me back up.

Besides they don't have pretty shooting vest like we do. They also shoot ugly guns. You don't see red white and blue stocks at there matches.

Steel killer

Heck if I layed down it would be like shooting from a teeter totter! :-D

genphideaux · « **Reply #10 on:** August 03, 2004, 10:10:13 AM »

shot prone once went to sleep woke up with a rattle snake beside me. Ate the snake, gave up prone.

Made snake catch'in to easy.

Dawg

K2 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 03, 2004, 11:02:48 AM »

Hi longwinters

The best game is the one you are shooting at the moment. All the shooting sports are good and I suspect the cycle thing myself. Biggest drawback to silhouette is also its big attraction, the steel target. They are fun to shoot at and fun to watch fall down, less fun to stand back up again :wink: If you are a good standing high power shooter you will be a good Silhouette shooter too. There is a learning curve to any of the games, even Cowboy. Personally I think silhouette is very friendly of the sports and most of the shooters will help you out with loads of advice. Live long and shoot em all :-D

Quote from: longwinters

Is silhouette shooting more popular than benchrest or "military style" (prone, standing, kneeling,sitting) shooting? If so, is this a cycle that shooting goes thru or has it been since its inception?

Long

iceman99 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 03, 2004, 07:53:57 PM »

To say Silhouette is the toughest... etc is pretty bold. That only the elite stick with it... I don't understand. At the Canadian nationals there were more AA shooters than any other class. Not sure what elite is...

I shoot quite a few disciplines and I see top notch shooters that don't shoot silhouette.

To excel at any discipline is a credit to a person's ability. To assume the sport you excel at is tougher than any other is pretty arrogant.

ajj · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2004, 04:00:39 AM »

I didn't interpret Pawel's post as arrogance. He's a very enthusiastic friend of the sport and was trying, I think, to simultaneously give us a pep talk and express the pride he feels and thinks the rest of us should feel if we stick with this very demanding sport. He can speak for himself of course but that's just my take on it. He may (or may not) have been reacting to the occasional arrogance I perceive in other disciplines historically considered more "serious" than silhouette. The stool shooters certainly consider themselves a small and elite group, and they are. Some highpower shooters like to talk about their long history and military connections. The three-position smallbore and airgun shooters have their sport in the Olympics. Silhouette is still considered more "recreational" than "serious" by lots of people in other disciplines who haven't tried it, sort of like the trap shooters looking down on the skeet shooters for so long. It's one of those "no respect" deals if, you care. Which you shouldn't. But that may have been what was on Pawel's mind.
One point about the difficulty of silhouette not yet mentioned is the time factor. Compared to ANY other offhand rifle discipline, we must shoot very quickly. Carl Bernsoky once commented that, obviously, 20 minutes was not sufficient time to fire 20 perfect shots offhand in across-the-course HP. No doubt, he is right. What do the smallbore guys get to fire 40 shots? An hour and a half?
The point is to be proud that you are tackling a very difficult discipline. That pride will keep you in the game and enhance your enjoyment of the sport. It doesn't have to be arrogance.

iceman99 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2004, 08:07:48 AM »

That explanation sounds fair.

It is fun to take someone who has an attitude that they're a really good shot and see their reaction at the silhouette line :-)

K2 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2004, 08:22:32 AM »

Great Points ajj

Sometimes the defense is caused by an offense. All the shooting sports would benefit from toning down the reteric and getting along even if a fellow doesn't particularly like some shooting sport. I started out with small bore rifle as a youth which is fairly typical. When I moved on to other sports some told me I should stay with SB cause it was the "best". Heck they are all the best if that is what you are doing at the moment.

Currently the Cowboy action is getting a bunch of looking down at with the "costume" jokes and short ranges. If they are having fun and promoting the shooting sports who cares. Clays vs Trap vs Skeet? Who cares they all use shot don't they?

Personally what I would like to see is for all the shooting sports to grow so I can try them all at some point in time. My dog is better than yours is best left for Kennel ration commercials :wink:

May all your Rams fall ajj

Quote from: ajj

I didn't interpret Pawel's post as arrogance. He's a very enthusiastic friend of the sport and was trying, I think, to simultaneously give us a pep talk and express the pride he feels and thinks the rest of us should feel if we stick with this very demanding sport. He can speak for himself of course but that's just my take on it. He may (or may not) have been reacting to the occasional arrogance I perceive in other disciplines historically considered more "serious" than silhouette. The stool shooters certainly consider themselves a small and elite group, and they are. Some highpower shooters like to talk about their long history and military connections. The three-position smallbore and airgun shooters have their sport in the Olympics. Silhouette is still considered more "recreational" than "serious" by lots of people in other disciplines who haven't tried it, sort of like the trap shooters looking down on the skeet shooters for so long. It's one of those "no respect" deals if, you care. Which you shouldn't. But that may have been what was on Pawel's mind.
One point about the difficulty of silhouette not yet mentioned is the time factor. Compared to ANY other offhand rifle discipline, we must shoot very quickly. Carl Bernsoky once commented that, obviously, 20 minutes was not sufficient time to fire 20 perfect shots offhand in across-the-course HP. No doubt, he is right. What do the smallbore guys get to fire 40 shots? An hour and a half?
The point is to be proud that you are tackling a very difficult discipline. That pride will keep you in the game and enhance your enjoyment of the sport. It doesn't have to be arrogance.

shootingpaul · « **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2004, 08:42:08 AM »

Thanks ajj!
there is so many shooters that quit silhouette, so many that dont even try to give it a shot, I meat many "gopher" shooters that thought that the silhouette is easy, until they tried it. Now by elite shooters I mean shooters that are staying here and keeping with the sport, does not matter if they are A, B or AA, or what ever class, they are elite because they did not give up and are sticking with it. when it gets tough - the tough gets going - and this tough guy is , in my opinion, an elite shooter,

and if someone takes it as an arrogance - then it is not my problem but theirs - so there you have the arrogance!

I myself tried many different shooting sports, I shot 10m air, shotgun, pistol, i enjoy them all, but most of them all I enjoy silhouette. Everyone of them has its own level of dificulty and is hard to master. by "elliting" silhouette I am trying to gain more interest for it, and you understood me well AJJ
Regards,

Arizona Jake · « **Reply #17 on:** August 04, 2004, 01:20:58 PM »

Amen to that, Pawel!!

jim62 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 04, 2004, 04:47:49 PM »

You know, reading the replies here I get the feeling NOBODY on this forum considers BPCR silhouette to actually BE a silhouette discipline!!

That is sad becasue it IS without a doubt the TOUGHEST one of them ALL and yet ,by all odds it IS the most popular!!
Just ask some of the smokeless Highpower ,Small bore or Pistol silhoutte shooters who tried and quit because they A) could not master the bullet casting and or loading techniques to get basic mechanical accuracy for their rifle.B) could not take the recoil,C) could not master the course of fire.

I could not go to our Nationals this year(I am a Master Class BPCR shooter) just before he left,a friend of mine who was leaving for Raton told me our nationals filled up the max of 364 slots for a 120 shot match!!
So Greg Connors had to go to an 80 shot format just to accomidate everyone.

My question here is has ANY other NRA silhoutte disclpline been as popular as NRA BOCR silhouette is now??Has any other Silhouette nationals ever had 350+ competitors

tirador · « **Reply #19 on:** August 04, 2004, 06:24:15 PM »

Jim62, the shooterstalk.com forum that went out of business had a place for BPCR I am not sure if this one does or not but most of the people that frequent this forum either does smallbore, HP or Cowboy silhouette rifle competition and I am not sure that the great majority of us know much about BPCR.

I consider BPCR to be a Silhouette discipline and a very tough one at that, my problem with it is that my eye sight is not as good as when I was younger besides being nearsighted the couple of times I shot BPCR I spent most of the allowed time just looking for the targets I was supposed to be shooting at.

Your sport is very tough because the reasons you mentioned earlier and that is without taking into consideration the great expense of the rifles and equipment needed.

When I started shooting HP Silhouette in 1978 they only had one class and the matches were as popular as BPCR is now, it was not unusual to have 300 plus shooters at the Nationals, the sport has had growing pains ever since but I would not say that BPCR is more popular than HP or smallbore just because BPCR draws more shooters at their Nationals. The last issue of Shooting sports USA shows three pages of HP/Smallbore matches held through out the nation to only one page of BPCR matches.