Author Topic: T/C Encore mis-fire problems (Read 1018 times)

Blaine · « **on:** July 07, 2004, 01:22:28 PM »

Brand new to this forum....Having a problem with mis-fires with my T/C Encore (308 barrel) any suggestions or has anyone had a similar problem?

Blaine

rimfire · « **Reply #1 on:** July 07, 2004, 01:34:51 PM »

Friend just returned a 308 barrel for the same problem and it was repaired for nothing. I will call him and ask him to post the explanation he got from T/C later tonight.

Blaine · « **Reply #2 on:** July 07, 2004, 01:43:33 PM »

Thanks for the quick reply....I've written to T/C about the problem but as yet have not heard back. I have 2 other barrels (223 & 243) with no similar problems. At first I thought it might be a bad box of ammo, but have since had it happen to 3 other brands. Pretty frustrating. I was going to use it for deer hunting this fall but if I can't rely on it.......

Blaine

Buford · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2004, 01:47:54 PM »

Blaine - I have a half dozen of the Encores and have never had problems with misfiring. T/C is great to work with - give them a call and they will help you out. I would be willing to wager it is either not locking up completely or the fault of the ammunition. Good luck and keep up posted if you would - thanks

Blaine · « **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2004, 01:57:44 PM »

I'm sure that it is locking up completely...the primer shows an indent, so the firing pin is striking it. I have the same problem with 4 different factory loads, so I have ruled out the ammo (unless they are all bad). Thanks for the reply Beuford

KN · « **Reply #5 on:** July 07, 2004, 04:03:05 PM »

Is it a good solid dent in the primer or a slight dent? If its good and solid then it would have to be an ammo problem. If it looks like a lite primer hit it would be a lockup problem. If the locking lugs are not engaging deep enough you will still usually get a primer hit. Just not hard enough to fire. I have seen this happen with a couple of barrels of my own so I know its a fairly common problem. The good news is its pretty easy to fix. TC can send you a new set of lugs. KN

Blaine · « **Reply #6 on:** July 07, 2004, 04:12:41 PM »

The dent in the primer looks like a regular strike. Sometimes I can re-cock and it will fire and sometimes I can rotate the cartridge and get it to fire and sometimes it will not fire at all no matter what I do. It has done it to 4 different factory loads.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2004, 02:29:11 AM »

Sounds like you are not holding the trigger all the way back after you pull it. If you only pull the trigger 1/2 way or too slowly the safety bar is not fully engaged and you get a misfire.

KYODE · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2004, 06:52:08 AM »

doesn't really sound like lock up :? if the encore or G2 does not fully lock up, they will not cock at all to start with.

Blaine · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2004, 09:05:27 AM »

I agree Kyode.....I was leaning to a head space problem where the case is allowed too far in the chamber and the pin can't make good contact. I can't believe that 4 different premium loads are all bad, so I've ruled out ammo, and both of my other barrels don't have a problem so I've ruled out the frame. It has to be unique to the 308 barrel. I've written T/C (they won't respond to emaails any more), so I guess now I just wait.

stratocaster · « **Reply #10 on:** July 08, 2004, 09:07:44 AM »

You might want to check how deep the un-fired cartridge is sitting the the breech and then check how the once-fired brass sits in the breech. I have a 30/06 pistol barrel that I believe the chamber was cut a bit too deep. When using brand new brass, the case will sit approx. .002" below the breech (no good!). I do get the occasional misfire when using brass that is brand new. Once-fired brass from this barrel protrudes about .003" from the breech. My barrel to frame gap is about .003", so I size my case to protrude .002" from the breech and have no misfires. The misfires were driving me nuts until I figured out what the problem was. If you don't hand load, I don't know what to tell you, but if you do, I would fire form about 100 cases or so and use them for hunting. If your cases do sit too low in the breech and you don't hand load, send the barrel back to T/C.
I hope this helps. Let us know how you make out!

Blaine · « **Reply #11 on:** July 08, 2004, 09:19:40 AM »

Your response sounds very logical. Unfortunately I don't reload anymore, so I'll have to send the barrel back. At this moment I'm awaiting a call back from T/C. Their first response wasn't too helpful. A lady told me it was because I use a hammer extension and that slowed down the hammer. :? After I asked her why neither of my other barrels did it she refered me to someone else :wink: I think you have hit the nail on the head. I am going to have to get another barrel to solve my problem. We'll see what T/C has to say...I'll keep you informed.

Thanks again

Blaine

bgjohn · « **Reply #12 on:** July 08, 2004, 09:26:28 AM »

Quote from: PA-Joe

Sounds like you are not holding the trigger all the way back after you pull it. If you only pull the trigger 1/2 way or too slowly the safety bar is not fully engaged and you get a misfire.

And if you pull the trigger harder, will the bullet bullet go farther or faster? :?
JM

skb2706 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 08, 2004, 10:02:53 AM »

sounds like a head space problem........would be easy to tell if you had a head space indicator but even with out one you should be able to tell if the case pushed in the chamber with the barrel removed from the frame set below the face of the barrel or not. If you add in the gap in the frame from breech face you could easily come up short......so to speak.

PA - huh ?

Blaine · « **Reply #14 on:** July 08, 2004, 11:28:08 AM »

Thanks SKB....I did some checking a few minutes ago. The case of the misfired rounds and the new rounds from the same box of ammo dropped further into the breech than did the spent cases and the unfired rounds from the "good" boxes. I don't have a gauge, but I'd guess it is more than .001", maybe even .002". I think that this difference coupled with the frame/breech gap is the cause of my woos. I'm still waiting for T/C's response. I presume that the only remedy will be a new barrel that is not bored quite so deep? We'll see....I'll keep you posted

Blaine

Blaine · « **Reply #15 on:** July 08, 2004, 06:16:08 PM »

I did call.....see previous post......they didn't return my voice message. Maybe tomorrow.

Blaine

skb2706 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2004, 04:53:02 AM »

Blaine - the other option would be to start loading your own again. The benefits .....especially with a break action gun are huge.

Blaine · « **Reply #17 on:** July 09, 2004, 08:09:07 AM »

skb....I hear you and I really wish I could. But between the expense of getting set up and time constraints, it just isn't practical. If I can't get my 308 problem ironed out, I'll just use my 243 barrel or the loads that work in the 308 for hunting. I have found that the Federal Premium Nosler Partitions work well and I get descent accuarcy with them as is. Thanks for all your help everyone.

Blaine

stratocaster · « **Reply #18 on:** July 09, 2004, 04:10:32 PM »

Blaine,
Check your pm...

rimfire · « **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2004, 07:11:09 AM »

His gun misfired probably half the time and was vertically stringing badly. The ones that didn't fire had light primer hits.

We were thinking headspace or something similar but T/C replaced the firing pin bushing and the problem went away [erratic ignition].

We then pillar bedded the forend with teflon washers [very simple!] and the stringing problem went away. Little more than 1" groups now and very happy!

T/C turned it around in 2 days. Seven days from mailing until back in his hands. Good service. No charge. Only cost was for the shipping to them. They covered return shipping.

T/C fired a full box of Winchester factory rounds which we had told them was what we were shooting. They sent the fired brass back with the gun. Also checked and confirmed the headspacing and anything else they could think of.

Please note we spoke directly to the service department and the gentlemen had us send the gun to his attention so he could get right on it with no delay.

Blaine · « **Reply #20 on:** July 10, 2004, 08:56:44 AM »

Thanks again rimfire....good information.....I'm glad all worked out for your friend.

Blaine

Blaine · « **Reply #21 on:** July 14, 2004, 02:17:15 PM »

This post is just an update....I sent my Encore to T/C today after talking to the gunsmith there. After a go-around about hammer extensions (they are really not in favor of these) :-D They finally conceded that it may be a head space problem. My research and all your good input has led me to the conclusion that the barrel is cut too deep causing too much head space. We'll see if T/C agrees and what their FIX is. Thanks again for all your good advice everyone. God Bless

Blaine

Bullseye · « **Reply #22 on:** July 14, 2004, 03:29:38 PM »

I have not heard anything bad about hammer extensions with Encores.

I have with Contenders though and lived the experience. Three barrels all misfiring. On the third trip to T/C they asked me if I used a hammer extension. When I told them yes, they said don't. They claim the spring in the Contender is marginal (esp. magnum primers) and the extension will slow it down just enough. They put new springs in it since they said I had weakened them and sent it back. 12 years later and now with a collection of 9 barrels I have never once had another mis-fire without the hammer extension. I just do not mess with hammer extensions anymore since I have never had the need. I can reach my hammer fine with all my scopes.

Just thought I would pass that on although I really do not think that is your problem.

Blaine · « **Reply #23 on:** July 14, 2004, 03:56:58 PM »

I've talked to experts who say that the hammer extension does not affect the hammer speed. T/C is against them for legal reasons. They got sued over an incident years ago and a hammer extension was involved...although not the direct cause of the accident. Anyway...the point is moot, because I used an extension for all 3 of my barrels and only one had problems. I think they will find that the barrel is cut too deep and they will replace it....we'll see.

Blaine

Bullseye · « **Reply #24 on:** July 14, 2004, 05:51:47 PM »

Like I said, I do not think that is your problem. It does not really matter what any experts say, I had the experience and have seen reports from others in this forum over the years. T/C would not be responsible legally for a hammer extension since they do not sell them.

Blaine · « **Reply #25 on:** July 14, 2004, 06:15:16 PM »

They don't sell them any more , but they used to before the incident. I'm confused...What did you mean that it "wasn't my problem" ? What do you think the misfire problem is.....the hammer extender? I took it off, and it still misfired.

Blaine

inzalu · « **Reply #26 on:** July 15, 2004, 05:02:43 PM »

I was the person rimfire was referring to. I thought it was a headspace problem. It turned out to be a repair on the firing pin bushing and another small issue I cannot remember. However, I did have a hammer extension on it which I took off and will not use again. I use high rings on my contenders and encore and have little problem reaching the hammer. I would suggest heeding their advice. My gun is shooting excellent now. Also be patient, work with loads and break the barrel in with a routine. My barrels get more accurate with proper break in and load work.

I have a 7-30 waters from VVCG that just shot 1/2" groups at 100yds and will shoot under an inch all day long. In addition my encore in 280 rem (TC Custom Shop) is at a little over an inch with about 30 rounds through it and still working with only one load.

Good luck with your encore, and I hope it works out for you.

Blaine · « **Reply #27 on:** August 11, 2004, 11:32:48 AM »

Hi all....Just wanted to follow-up with everyone that posted in the string. I sent the gun to TC and they checked it out and sent it back after "fixing the trigger" (which was working fine) The problem still didn't go away. After another conversation with TC gunsmith, it was determined that the head space was checked from the breach face to the end of the barrel and it was fine....trouble was that if the barrel was cut too deep, the head space problem would still be there. After sending the barrel back again, they checked the depth of the chamber and after finding it was indeed cut too deep, they replaced the barrel. I haven't tried it yet (just got it back yesterday) but I'm sure the problem is fixed. Thanks to all who tried to help.....Blaine

KYODE · « **Reply #28 on:** August 12, 2004, 08:37:29 AM »

yep, glad you're fixed up. it is amazingly surprising that they did not check the depth of the chamber when you sent it the first time. :?

Blaine · « **Reply #29 on:** August 12, 2004, 08:50:22 AM »

I agree.....the gunsmith said that checking the space between the breech and barrel end was the "industry norm" for checking head space, but when they knew the problem was misfires.......duh........They were so fixated on the fact that I was using a hammer extension, that they looked at the overall problem with blinders on. At least that's my take on it.

Blaine