Ruger #1 Tropical in .458 - as a cast bullet gun

[RangerBob]

I'm interested in loading my .458 as an Express Rifle.  I want to use a 350gr cast bullet at 2000fps or even 2300fps.

What do you think is the best approach?  I know that I am working against a very long throat a a quick rifling twist, but wonder what is possible.

I have tried a 350gr plain base (air cooled wheel weights) unsized at .464.  Loaded 4895 to about 1500 it is mild and accurate.  How far can I push this load and still get good accuracy?

I have also sized some of the same bullet to .454 and patched back to .461-.462 and loaded to 1900fps.  These seem to show some promise.

Do you have any other formulas that seem to work well?

Do you think that I need to go with a heavier bullet?

Is there a practical velocity maximum with this quick twist?

How much will a gas check and water dropping buy me?

Thanks for any ideas!

Bob.

[bpjon]

I read your post and thought to myself "Isn't there a couple of guys trying to do the same thing over on the SixshooterCommunity board?  I should send him over there and he can talk to them to avoid making the same mistakes thay have."

Then I saw who wrote it.  What do you think, RangerBob, would going over there and talking to yourself do any good? :wink:

[Robert]

Why not a nice muzzle-loader?  That is about where you are headed.  That being said...I just love shooting big cast bullets.  Just made up a batch of .358 Lyman 280 gr yesterday.  I have been working on a load for my Whelen, but I had a problem with the seat-plug tearing up the noses with the last batch.  I think I have thet remedied though.  I also use these bullets with my 21" Contender Carbine in 357 Max.  They are a lot of fun in the max....I use 357 mag brass for the long bullets though, and the over-all-length still comes out right, I just don't have to stuff as much lead down into the brass.  I know....I have heard people say 'nay' using short brass in the maximum, but these are light loads...I don't think they will cause throat erosion.

[RangerBob]

I'm still working on the concept, but I'm too cheap to buy new stuff (molds and such) unless I have a pretty good idea that they are going to work.  

I keep finding new places to post the same question.  Eventually, I'll find somebody who has walked this road before.

[HWooldridge]

Paul Matthews addressed this rifle and caliber in his book, "The Paper Jacket".  Since the book is about paper patching, there are no grooved bullet loads but he discusses straight black and duplex loads.

[Lloyd Smale]

never did it with black powder but i used to have a 1 tropical and all i shot out of was cast. I dont remember the powder charge but i was useing a 500 grain rcbs round flat gas check at about 2000 fps. Bullets were cast out of 5050 ww and lyno and lubed with felix lube. No leading at all in my gun What i was doing is lubeing the first three lube groves and crimping in the fourth. I fooled around alot with 335 wc842 and i think my best loads was with benchmark.  All loads went between 1 inch and 1 1/2 at 50 yards and some went into an inch at 100 Recoil wasnt for the squemish though!

[fffffg]

the only problems your going to have with that gun is recoil with heavy loads.. get ahold of veril and get some blue lube..  i used to shoot 400 grain bullets at 1900 feet per second (ruger 45-70)with hard cast , no dropping, had lots of leading until i whent to veril smiths blue lube.  hes moderator on one of these columns. youll be able to shoot over 1900-2000 ft per second.  you probably  will need to test many powders, many crimps, differing lead hardneses to get accuracy..try some different primers too.  you could hit it right off but different powders really make a diffence in accuracy.. ..  the hardest lead is made by droppong antimony allow in water but you have to wait for it to harden and it will soften after good while. and some keep the bullets in the freezer..  your twist in that gun will alow you to use longer bullets but how long i dont know.. the 45-70 i had never shot well becouse i was using too long of bullets with the slow twist it had..  if you shoot a deer with a 458 hard cast  at 2000 f p s in the lungs it may scamper away never to be found.. if you shot it with pure lead paper patch  bullet at 1300  ft per second in the lungs or shoulder it will be like hitting it with a sledge hammer.. around  circa 1900 or just before jacketed bullets came out paper patch was used alot for hunting loads, and was really getting going even for buffalo.   my opinion only.. dave...