Anybody train for fur and feather?

[Mattkc]

I need about four dogs but the wife says only one.  I take my son squirrel and rabbit hunting.  Would like to get him into bird hunting but we live in Missouri and the bird hunting has been bad for years.  Would like to train a bird dog but he would only get to hunt a couple of times a year when we could take a trip to Kansas.  I would hate to leave him home while I take my son hunting fur locally.  Then I read that in Europe they train versatile dogs to hunt both fur and feathers.  I don't see any reason a US dog couldn't do the same.  I've been thinking a britt or english springer due to thier smaller size a lab would be good but to big for my place.  Anybody train for both or have any ideas on the subject.

[Airedale From NY]

The Airedale Terrier is one of the most versatile breeds alive. I do not think there has been much they have not been used on with success at one time or another. On top of that they make a first rate companion dog that your wife will fall in love with. Just make sure you get your dog from a breeder of hunting lines and not out of some show dogs.

[Dave H20 Fowl]

I have seen English Springer Spaniels used for both bird and fur.  I only use mine for birds.  The springers are flushing dogs, so it can be tricky when hunting for grouse or in thick cover.  Typical upland shooting is great.  I have to discourage my dog from chasing rabbits, I can usually tell when she is scenting a rabbit and not a bird, but I'm sure with the right training she could do both.  I just am not a very good trainer.  I like the size of my springer too.  Not too big for houses or cars and not too small for a day in the field.

[Don Fischer]

The English Springer Spaniel was and probally still is used for bird's and fur in England. The German pointing breed's are used the same in Europe.

They all also make good water dog's with the nod going to the Springer Spaniel if you don't mind all the water they drag in. Long coat could be a problem but it's much shorter on field springer's. Don't go with show blood.

I am not up on springer's anymore but if you find Saighton or Dewfield blood, that's English import and strictly field. Those field dog's will be quite a bit smaller than bench dog's also.

Someone might also mention field cocker's. Some year's ago some were imported to try amd revive the cocker in this country. I don't know what came of it but at one time they were fine hunting dog's. They were used to "cock" game. When they found game they'ed go down on the ground and the hunter would throw a net over them and the game. I doubt that that's happened in recent memory! I've never seen one of these field cocker's but would be very wary unless I got to see both parent's work.

[Mattkc]

Thanks for the replies,  I did a lot of research on the airedale what a shame to take such a great hunting dog and turn them into foofoo show dogs.  Any dog good enough for Pres. Teddy is good enough for me.  However my wife thinks they are the ugliest dogs alive,  women.  Found a breeder only 20 miles away who breeds small munsterlander.  A great breed that will hunt both feather and fur but the pups start at $1000.  Also found some breeders in Kansas that raise french brittanies.  Nice small dogs good hunter but can't find any info on them hunting fur.

[Don Fischer]

If it come's down to the french brittany or the munsterlander, I'd be hard pressed to reccomend either. I see the munsterlander a couple time's and not impressed. The french brittany I've never seen but would guess it's more for show than field. Have judged a good number of brittany stake's in the past and a good bit of National Shoot To Retrieve and a french brittany has never even showed up! Gotta be a reason for that. If your serious about a dog to do what you want, your best to stick with a breed that has proven itself in at least some of the areas you want. After you lay out anywhere from $350 on up, especially $1000, if the dog doesn't work out, your pretty much stuck. Your wife and kid's will likely love it even if all it does is lay on the couch and lick itself. A dog will live, naturally, form about 10 yrs on. The truth is your wife and kid's will love one of the other breed's as well and then you',ve a better  chance of getting what you want.

Quote from Delmar Smith: "You can probally find diamond's in Oklahoma but, your chances are a lot better in South Africa." Think about it!

[SAW]

Look at the Drahthaar.  The germans believe in using one dog for everything.  The Drahtahaar's cannot be bred until they have shown toughness (killing a varmit).  This is usually a raccoon in my area of the country.  My male has caught and killed 4 coyotes and numerous raccoons while pheasant hunting.  These were dispatched by him with no help of me. We then continue on and he points birds for me.  In the first test the test revolves around tracking wild rabbits.  Some lines are loud on track.  In germany they are also used on wild boar.  Here in the US they are most commonly used to Track Rabbits, Point Upland birds, retreive waterfowl, Retreive and track all wounded game including deer. I use my about 90% of the time as an pointing upland dog but use him for duck and goose hunting and raccoon hunting at times.  I have never used him on squirels but I am conviced they will hunt whatever you want them to.  All this and he sleeps in the house with my kids.  The kids play with him when he is tired of them he licks there face, while they are spitting and sputtering he takes off and lies someplace else. Take a look at the website. www.vdd-gna.org.
In germany they are the #1 hunting dog registred.  For the true versatile dog they are hard to beat.

[Don Fischer]

If this guy's wife think's an airedale is ugly, she'll likely think a Wirehair is ugly also. I'm not a big fan of the wirehair but they truly are a versatile dog. If I remember right, in Germany breeding is very controlled and ALL hunting breed's must be tested prior to breeding and/or registration. All those things are required of the Wirehair but in Germany they are required to kill a cat. I saw a photo of the first Wirehair brought to this country. It was wearing a muzzle. Those dog's were fierce but I've seen little of it here. They're coat is like wire which is where they get their American name, and fairly easy to take care of. They swim well, are more tolerant to cold water than the Shorthair and although I've heard the other claim's for them, I've never seen them preform. I doubt your wife will ok a wirehair if she nixed the airedale on look's but you might find a N.A.V.H.D.A. (North American versatile Hunting Dog Assoc.) test if you can and go watch.

My vote would still be first the Springer and then the Brittany.

[SAW]

Drahthaar means wirehair in German.  The wiry hair outer coat with a dense under coat  that burs typically do not stick to.  this is the major difference in look between the Draht and the Shorthair.  It really does protect the dog from the elemets, cuts and scratches.  the Drahts coat lies much flatter and less likley to pick up burrs than an airedales.  The one common thing is the Beard with the two.

Yes there is no doubt that some of the first drahthaars that were imported to the US were mean.  but I would bet that you would have seen the same thing with Dobermans, German shepards, shorthairs, airedales even dachsunds schnauzers.  the dogs I have been bite the most by when going to farms is the Austrailan Blue Healer.  Don't judge a breed by one dog.  The meanest dog I ever ran into was a lab.  I was walking by him and his owner when i was going to a dove hunting station.  That Lab wanted to eat mean in no uncertain terms. I dont think that you will find many people who would think of the lab as a mean breed.  Every breed has its bad eggs.

The Drahathaars and the AKC have become to seperate breeds.  More emphisis has been been put on the upland field work and less on fur with the AKC Wirehairs.  You even see this with NAVHDA as they do not use rabbits for tracking work and use pheasants in the natural ability test.  The Drahthaars have maintained the versatile aspect throught the german testing standards. Fur such as rabbits, varmit toughness tests and deer blood tracking in the utilty test.   I am by no means bad mouthing the AKC program it is what a person wants out of the dog they have.  I am just pointing out that the Drahthaar and AKC wirehair have evolved into 2 seprate breeds which both have different breed standards.  The Drahthaar has a shorter haired coat breed standard than the AKC wirehair from what I have been told.

I have had springers in the past and they are super dogs.  I love them but I grew up with pointing dogs and personally was not happy with a flusher.  the only other thing I have against the springer is having to pick out burrs from its coat.  My old drahthaar I only check his feet and am done. Burrs do not stick to him.  i always felt so bad picking burrs from my poor springer.  on work ethic I think pound for pound the springer can compete with any dog

The type of dog you choose is up to you and that choice is yours.  I would not want a person to choose a dog that they are not happy with the hunting style.  If you choose one that you are happy with the type and style, by from a quallity breeder and I am sure you will be happy.

[Mattkc]

I've got my choices down to the wirehair or French Brittany.  I have always liked Brittanys and that's why I got interested in the French Brittany.  The difference between the American and French are mainly size the French being smaller and they work close in both things I'm looking for.  The French is the original Brittany brought over from Europe.  Over time they were breed into American larger size and two colored ,French can be tri-colored.  The european lines have been re-introduced (French) and breeders are keeping the lines separate.  The Wirehair or Drahthar would likely do better in the field but would be more problematic at home.  As far as their look I like the fuzzy face I don't know why my wife has a problem heck she married me.  I have a feeling my wife will be happier wife a 18 pound French Brittany running around the house compared to a 50 pound Wirehair.

[SAW]

Mat
One thing I have learned is, if Momma isn't happy nobody's happy!
SAW

[Airedale From NY]

If it is just the wire coat that your wife does not like look into a Redline type Airedale. They are the same dog other than they are a throwback in looks to the old original type Airedale, they have a hard short smooth coat. Some what like the smooth fox terrier is to the wire hair type. They almost always come from good hunting lines and are wicked on fur.

[Mattkc]

I think the problem with the Airedale was the hair and the long snout.  Heck we got a old crippled toy schnauzer she loves to death.  I gave up trying to figure out woman a long time ago.  If it was just me I would get the Drathaar.  I handled and trained military and police dogs for ten years and have a good understanding of German dogs temperament.  The Britt will be a lot softer then any dog from Germany.  However a lot of the dogs I trained for drug work fit in the soft group.  You just adapt to what your working with.  I made the mistake of letting my teenage daughter see some web pics of a litter of French Britts now it looks like a 3 hour drive to Salina KS next week.  One nice thing about the French Britt that the Drahthaar share is their all hunting stock no show.  Show up at an AKC show with a small tri-colored short snouted French Britt they would laugh you out of the ring.     Worst case I end up with a cute house dog for $700.  I had to take a disability retirement from the PD for a on duty injury.  So I have lots of time to train a dog and I think one of the larger dogs would run me into the ground trying to keep up.  I'm kinda slow moving these days but I do have a lot of time to hunt now and squirrel season opens in May.  When I go check out those pups I'll see how the parents work.   I'll see how the pups do with a bird wing but I'm also taking a rabbit foot and squirrel tail and see how they like fur.