whisker bisquit question

[howie1968]

hello  i  have  recently gotten  back into archery  my set up is  a  PSE bruin  with rimfire cams   it  is  a  solo-cam bow set at 60 lbs  29 inch draw   i am a fingers hooter  and  this  bow  has  been  a  tough  one  to  shoot   accurately  i  am  shooting  a  tm hunter style  rst.  I  am wanting a whisker bisquit  but  can only find a right handed   one  can  i  use  this  and  revese  the  bracket?   how  does  the  bisqut  worK  one  way only?  ive  also  thought  about  a  center rest flipper   by  New archery products

[cam69conv]

Ok here we go....#1 please forget about the wisker..If you are having major problems then you may be gettin fletching contact. Wisker would probably even be worse since you shoot fingers..2 suggestions..#1 try shooting with a release..You would be amazed at the improvement of your arrow flight..I dont care if your the best archer on the planet if you shoot fingers you get string roll..That transferres into you arrow flight causing it to tail right off the bat..Another suggestion is to try one of the drop away rests..I know they are a lil pricey but they are WELL worth the cost..They iliminate fletching contact problems..NAP has a nice one for less than 50 bux..I have the Muzzy Zero effect on my hoyt and Ill NEVER look back to tm hunter style or anything else now..( lol Till they come up with somethin even better) gotta have an excuse to pee off tha wife n spend money..LOL..

[Arrroman]

howie 1968,

The whisker biscuit works great with fingers. Of course you do need to shoot the correct spine arrows, use good form, and you have to use a tuned bow.

Some models of the biscuit are reversible from right to left hand and some are not. The newer models with the Quik-Shot feature would look kind of strange if you reversed them because the shroud that encloses the biscuit was designed with a front and a back to it. But you could  still pop the biscuit out of the shroud and it would work OK.

Its important to have a loose arrow to biscuit fit. Tight biscuit fit will cause tuning problems. The biscuit should be installed parallel to the bowstring and not be tipped forward or tipped backward.

I usually start each install by setting the bow at an even tiller. Even tiller can be set quickly by turning both limb bolt in to the bottom then backing them out three even turns each. Most bows can shoot a level arrow from the 90degree position on the bowstring if they have been set at an even tiller.

The You should set the nocking point on the bowstring above the arrow and the arrow should be at 90degrees to the bowstring and the biscuit if it is going to shoot straight.

The windage of the rest can be set by lining up the arrow with the stabilizer on the bow. I reccomend grouptuning for the narrowest groups to fine tune the windage setting for the rest. When the bow is stacking arrows on the same vertical line at all different yardages the windage is set properly.

You can leave the nocking point set so the arrow is at 90degrees to the bowsting and adjust the tiller of the bow if need be to correct a nock low or a nock high arrow in the target. A nock high arrow would require that you tighten the lower limb bolt to correct the tiller and have the bow shoot a level arrow. A nock low arrow in the target would require that you tighten the upper limb bolt to get the bow to shoot a level arrow in the target.

Tuning a bow in this fashion is real fast and gives you the ability to raise or lower the draw weight whenever you want. You can make all of your adjustments with a wrench and you won't need a ruler or a bowsquare.

A properly tuned bow will place broadheads and fieldpoint arrows of the correct spine in the same hole.

Good luck hunting! >>>------------>

[cam69conv]

Arrro , Have they suddenly solved the problem of wiskers tearing your fletching to pieces?? Slowing your arrow speed..Wearing down pretty fast if you use carbons?? How do these things sell is my question to all?? Its simple physics...you have a 3 inch hole filled with a bristle of nylon..Its actually DESIGNED to hold an arrow...I know many use them and everyone that I know personally that bought one no longer has one. It hit the trash not long after they bought it..Now on the wisker shoots great with fingers..your tellin him that if you tune the bow to a 90 straight it will shoot good??? you ever shoot fingers?? you dont even set a tm hunter style 90 out...You have to compensate for finger roll..No way around it..An arrow shot with fingers will ALWAYS tail left or right depending on your shot hand.. you tune your rest to compensate for this..Now how are you going to tune a rest to compensate for a tailing when that rest is MADE to surround the arrow ?? Im compleatly dumbfouned at how they sell these things... just my opinion not tryin ta hurt no ones feelins but this is extreamly simplistic... even if he shot with a release granted he could get it shootin bullet holes ( till the bristles started to wear ) but he would still have the fletch probs and the slower speeds... Just my 2 cents

[Dalton]

Howie 1968,

I am also a finger shooter.  It's good to see a few of us out there.  

There are several problems I see with your current setup.  I looked up the PSE Bruin and the axle to axle length of 36" could be causing you to pinch your fingers on the nock.  Most finger shooters are shooting bows with an axle to axle of 40" or more.  Another problem is that you are using a solocam bow.  These cams work great for release shooters, but cause problems for finger shooting because of the narrow valley in their force draw curve.  In other words when you have the bow at full draw, allowing the string any slack will cause it to aggresively pull from your fingers.  A good finger bow has a much smoother force draw curve.  Lastly, the TM Hunter style rest is not designed for finger shooters.  It does not have the left to right flexibilty that is needed for finger shooting.

Back when I switched to finger shooting, I also tested the Whisker Biscuit.  It does not allow the proper left to right flexibility for finger shooting.  Carolina Archery Products had a solution to this problem.  It was to start cutting away at the whiskers on either side of the arrow.  To be fair I never tested that solution.  I guess the thought of buying a $50 rest and having to void the warranty just to see if it would work didn't suit me.  

I use the NAP Centerest Flipper and I absolutely love it.  It is simple, field replaceable, and quiet.  

If you want some more information on this subject you can find it at http://www.huntersfriend.com/bowselection.htm. :grin:

[Arrroman]

On high poundage bows Carolina Archery does say on their website you can trim the biscuit, but that is after you have tried adjusting the rest first.

I do reccomend adjusting the rest so that the arrows are hitting the same vertical line at differnt distances. Finger shooters will often find that the rest will be somewhat to the opposite side of center from their bowstring hand. How much to the outside will depend on how smooth their release is.

Shorter bows are going to pinch the fingers more than longer ones because of the string angle, but that doesn't mean the bow will not shoot. Will a bow shoot better using a release. Yeah! They shoot better with sights too!

The B-2 biscuit is a softer finer bristle than the original biscuit and offer Zero speed loss when compared to a typical prong rest or drop-away.

The soft rubbery kind of fletching that is used on the cheap kind of arrows sold through mail order don't hold up well on any type of rest.

Out of tune bows, using underspined arrows, real high or real low nock points, are things that will typically cause noise and wear and tear on the fletching. The only cure for this is to tune your bow and use the correct spine arrow.

A blind man with good hearing could probably still help tune a bow with a whisker biscuit on it for you.

If you shoot a weak spine arrow the arrow will whip aroud the inside of the rest when its shot and it will make noise. So shoot the correct spine arrow.

If the windage of the rest is wrong the rest will make noise so you grouptune and the arrow shoots quiet straight through the middle of the rest.

A high or low nocking point, or an out of tiller bow can send the arrow crashing high or low into the biscuit. So start with an even tiller bow and nock the arrow at 90degrees to the bowstring so that the arrow leaves the bow level through the center of the biscuit and the bow will shoot quietly.

I do reccomend shooting the higher quality vanes through the biscuit. The older original style black biscuit had .010" diameter bristles and used to wear the outer 1/16" of feather fletching after 100-200shots. The wear did not progress much more than that after 1000 shots. The new B-2 whisker biscuit does not wear the feathers at all after 150 shots. I have chronographed 5 1/2" full left helical feather fletched arrows and they fly the same speed as 4" straight vane fletched arrows of equal weight through the B-2 biscuit.

Can you shoot a 60# 29" draw bow with a whisker biscuit and fingers?

Sure you can!

Good luck hunting! >>>------------>

[cam69conv]

Arro Im sorry but you are dead wrong about the wisker (new or old) matching the speeds of a drop away rest...I proved it to myself today. We tested a Bowtech black diamond that had it on already and it cronied at 320 fps...We put on the NAP drop away and it cronied at 331 fps...Same exact arrows and yes it was set up correctly....Proof is in the pudding there boss...Try it yourself and you will get the same results....There is NO way possible that it could EVER match a drop away rest my friend.. Ill say it again..Its SIMPLE PHYSICS....On a drop away rest NOTHING touches the arrow after the string is released..The cables move foward before the string therfore dropping the rest before the arrow moves more than 1/2 an inch..(there is slow motion video proof of this if you need ). Now with the wisker there is continual contact THROUGHT the arrow movement. Even with properly spined arrows there is always the sling bow effect where the arrow will warp up and down 2 sometimes 3 times untill it stabilizes...(slow motion video for that too) so it will be in contact untill it passes through the rest THEN comes the fletchings..ANY CONTACT means BAD results...Any slowing of a bow's performance capabilities is NOT good... No amount of spining selection or tuning can solve the problems of a wisker...Just one place for them and thats the trash..You even said it yourself..They will wear out a fletching..Now granted it may take longer for the new ones BUT if it will even wear it out EVER then that means it CONTACTS them...You proved it yourself in you own answer

[JJHACK]

My B2 biscuit is 2fps slower avg then my prong rest. I have tested it through my chronograph many times now.

A drop away might be a little bit faster when using ultra light arrows or some other odd conditions. The advantage of the biscuit is not in speed but in usability while still hunting and stalking. The Biscuit eliminates all concern over the arrow getting out of position. It's also far better at tight conditions draws and thick bush where brush will entangle the line to the drop away.

No problems with dropaways under many conditions but the Biscuit has also got its advantages. You must look at your hunting styles and conditions and choose from there. One is not better then the other in every way. Since I hunt on foot 99% of the time the biscuit works better for me. Even if I were a tree stand hunter the Biscuit would win out as the arrow never has any chance to bang against the riser or fall off the rest at any angle. Its simple, non-mechanical, no moving parts, rock solid, consistant, unbreakable, and one less thing for me to think about when I'm drawing the bow on big game.

I have used the drop aways and they are good and accurate. They just don't offer the same comfort zone the biscuit does for me.

[cam69conv]

Arro...Sorry to dissagree again boss but I personally use 8 grains per inch..Was useing 11gpi and same results ,,,Faster speeds...Also I hunt in some of the densest stuff in Pa ..Stuff like thorn bushes that try to saw your head off....There are several ways to take care of the "arrow bump" problem...BUT I personaly like the SAFE way and NOT walk with an arrow nocked..Now granted Its not like walking with a loaded gun BUT I have seen people fall while walking and I KNOW that the nock will go through you like a broadhead if you fall on it...But if you chose to walk with one nocked they have whats called KEEPERS that enclose your arrow untill you start the draw..Now as far as the little cable getting tangled yes that is a remote possibility but I dont think I personally would attempt to draw my bow while im in cover that could entangle it simply because that movement of the brush would spook a deer as quickly as if I yelled HEY DEER IMMA GONNA SHOOT YA..Just my 2 cents... I have tried all different combinations of rests, arrows, broadheads, bows and have an extreamly open mind but my own and MANY others personal experiance with the wisker is to use it as a paper weight and get a drop away...No Im not a crowd follower I simply find it the best solution to a problem that has plagued archers since the inception of the bow and arrow...fletch hit.. If it works for you and your style of hunting then more power to ya....May the biggun be within 20 for ya and Good luck

[Arrroman]

Folks will use different tuning techniques and get different results. What one person decribes as perfect tuning might not work for every rest. And its just as easy to make something fail as it is to make it succeed.

Lots of people are using the whisker biscuit successfully with both fingers and or a release aid. There is no reason for anyone to not be able to shoot their bow with fingers and a whisker biscuit arrowrest.

Speed loss and fletching wear are often going to be linked. Any bow tuning and arrow spine condition that sends the arrow and fletching sideways through the biscuit will lose speed and do bad things to the fletching.

The tuning suggestions that I posted in my first answer on this thread are usefull with other rests besides the whisker biscuit arrowrest. Some people will understand the relationship between tiller and how the arrow leaves the bowstring and others won't.

I try to post clear, cogent information that can be understood with the minimum amount of words. Is there more to bowtuning? Of course there is! But I'm not here to write a book about it.

Anyone who throws a rest in the trash is only demonstrating how little they really know about bowtuning.

Good luck hunting! >>>------------>

[Dalton]

ArrroMan,

When it comes to shooting a bow with fingers there are some guidelines that will help to ease the process.  As in my post earlier I listed those guidelines as using a round wheel or twin cam bow with an axle to axle length of 40" or more and using a rest that is designed to accommodate the left to right motion that occurs when shooting fingers.  Are these hard and fast rules, no they are general guidelines that make it easier to shoot your bow accurately when using fingers.

I think in your effort to defend the Whisker Biscuit you have overlooked the fact that there are better rests out there for finger shooters.  Rests that are designed specifically for that purpose.   Can you shoot a Whisker Biscuit rest with fingers?  Yes.  Should you?  No, not if you have something that will work better.  I don't dislike the Whisker Biscuit.  My wife shoots one on her Martin Prowler.  It's quiet, simple, and shoots very well using a release.  In fact I will pass those tuning tips you posted along to her. :-)  

Finally, I want to address your quote.

Anyone who throws a rest in the trash is only demonstrating how little they really know about bowtuning.

I wouldn't throw a Biscuit in the trash.  I would sell it on Ebay and buy a NAP Centerrest Flipper with three extra replacement heads for the same price. :wink:

[Thomas Krupinski]

My son and I each shoot Martin Cougar Mags.  He is shooting fingers and I am using a release.  We both use Wisker Biscuits.  He is a pretty good shot and has much younger eyes than I, and destroys arrows by stacking them when he shoots to the same place.  He is good out to 60 and my comfortable limit is 40.

We like the biscuit as it is the perfect still hunting and stalking rest.  Those others are pretty much a pain to have to deal with.  And if you are only talking about loosing a few fps,  that's the least of your worries.

[Arrroman]

Thomas,

Thank you for sharing your son's success with shooting the biscuit with fingers. Its amazing to me that people think that it can not be done.

I don't think that a 36"ATA  60# bow drawing 29" would be all that bad. When you come right down to it, its not the bow its the indian.

Have you tried the B-2 whisker biscuit yet?

Good luck hunting! >>>------------>
And don't forget to vote!

[Thomas Krupinski]

Naw,  we are still using the old style, I have two bow configured the same and they each have the originals with a slot for feeding cut out.  

I don't think it really makes much difference which hole size is used either.  You just adjust the gap to clear the shaft and it will only rest on the bottom anyway.

[Redhawk1]

I will keep my Whisker Biscuits, I tried different rests and like the Whisker Biscuit the best. I have constant groups and if I am only loosing 8 to 10 fps so what. I have had nothing but pass through shots on all my deer. What more am I going to achieve with the extra 8 to 10 fps???  :roll: