T/C Barrles in .22 Reed Express

[Reed1911]

Looks like BullBerry will be making the Contender BBLS  for us. Cost is going to be 290.00 (maybe less if I can get enough orders). I'll need to know who wants one so I can finalize the plan.

[skb2706]

Don't know anything about .22 Reed.........can you give me some background? Base case ? dies? load info ? performance ?

[Reed1911]

It is a 7.62x25 necked down to .22 caliber, with the shoulder blown forward. It equals and surpasses the .22 Hornet in performance, but with better accuracy, and easier loading. The Hornet is very accurate, but it tends to be very picky on what it wants to shoot well. The .22 Reed is not by any means picky and tolerates a wide variety of bullets and powder loaded to a wide range of velocities. Load data will be available in the form of binder pages, for now all we will release is starting data, so the hand loader can develop his loads for his need. We will be offering loaded ammunition as well.

I should have the prelim. data done tomorrow. I just got back from testing, the heavier loads need a little work and can be pushed a bit faster. I'll post it one I get it compiled.

[Reed1911]

Okay all the loads are from a 10" Contender barrel 10 shot strings average velocity. Those marked with a * are not running at full power yet, and we have not finished any of them with all the suitable powders and bullets.
30g - 2782
33g - 2733
35g - 2721
40g - 2596
45g - 2200*
50g - 2424*
53g - *
55g - 1981*
60g - *

The barrels are going to be 1:10 twist so I don't think anything beyond 60g is going to be suitable. But we’ll go ahead and get the data done for them anyhow just because I know someone will ask. I'm not planning on having any chambered for a faster twist so it will be based on the 1:10 and then dropped back about 3% to account for the higher pressure in the faster twist barrel. I am hoping to have the book available before we have the barrels done. What's really impressive to us is that the velocities on the lower weight bullets are running the same as a .22 Hornet out of a 22" barrel.

[rickyp]

who is gona make the dies and how much are they gona be?

how about necking down the 7.62x25  to a 17 cal

[Reed1911]

The die are made by Z-Hat custom (the gent responsable for the Hawk line of cartridges) but will only be available through us. Cost is looking like 170.00 per set. I'd thought about going down to .17 and up to 25, 6mm, 6.5, and 7mm. But those are in the future. Between orders and our regular R&D I'm prettty much swamped right now. This project originally began as an option for CZ-52 shooters. the .17 will not cycle the action, of course the T/C doesn't have to worry about that.

[rickyp]

don't take this wrong but $460 + shipping (got to include the price of the dies with the barrel, because with out them the barrel is useless) is a little much for a barrel that doesn't do much more then a 22 hornet.


now if someone is just looking for a new wildcat  to play with that is a different story.

[Reed1911]

While it is in the same power class as a Hornet, the accuracy is easier to obtain, is better than the Hornet, and fits into a standard semi-auto pistol format. You have to remember this was never intended to be a T/C cartridge, but some people have requested it chambered for the Contender and Encore so we did. The barrel cost is a bit higher than I wanted, but it will be made by BullBerry, so you know it's a fine barrel. I did find a machine shop that could make them much less expensive, but they had never tried to make T/C barrels and that's the time I just said "thank you for your time". I know it's not a hard item to make, but I'd rather go with a know high quality provider.

Now if you shoot autos, the next platform will be the 1911. (that's a secret). We have a lot to work on to get it there, but hopefully by next fall it will be done.

[Jim S]

I like wildcat rounds as much as the next guy but if you use your criteria for more velocity , ease of loading, TC usable and add in dies that only cost about 50.00 + 200FPS more velocity you get the 221 Fireball.
I have a Fireball and with 1680 powder it gets 2725 with a 50 Grain sierra blitz and will shoot arround .5" @ 100 yards. Please don't be offended and  I am not trying to rain on your new round just thought people could get better performance with out spending almost 500.00 for barrel and dies.  If money is no object and unique is what you crave plese indulge your self.

[Reed1911]

Jim,

No offense taken. Again it was intender for a semi-auto pistol.
The only thing the .22 Reed Express has over the .221 Fireball is less recoil. It blows my mind why that (the .221) cartridge went out of the mainstream, when it falls into that "inherently accurate cartridge" bracket. Low recoil, accurate with just about anything, and enough speed to drop up to a 'yote.
Which leads me to a question for you all that shoot field silhouette. Any idea if a 60g running at about 1.8KFPS (431FPE-ME) will take down the ram at 100yds? B.C. .271 S.D. .171.

[B_Koes]

Which leads me to a question for you all that shoot field silhouette. Any idea if a 60g running at about 1.8KFPS (431FPE-ME) will take down the ram at 100yds? B.C. .271 S.D. .171.

It will absolutely take down a field pistol ram.  However, since this cartridge is not legal for either Field Pistol or Hunter's Pistol that is kinda moot.  I doubt that there will be many (if any) more bottleneck cartridges approved for such use, but I certainly don't claim to know of the minds of the silhouette collective rulemakers.

[Reed1911]

As many of you who know me, know, I don't shoot silhouette, so I am not too familiar with the rules. Though with all you guys asking for specific loads for the competition, I may get into it. Hey it's research right?  :grin:

Can anyone tell me the minimum energy needed to consistently knock down the ram at 100 yds? (that is the furthest shot right?)

[B_Koes]

Can anyone tell me the minimum energy needed to consistently knock down the ram at 100 yds? (that is the furthest shot right?)

You are looking for the holy grail that many others before you are searching for as well.  Also, 100 yards (and optionally 100m) is the farthest distance for Field/Hunter Pistol.  200m if you're talking about big bore/long range silhouettes...however since your original question revolved around Field pistol I will say yes that 100yd/m is the maximum distance for rams.

Secondly, energy may not even be the best way to quantify knockdown power of a cartridge.  Some, myself included, prefer to use momentum which doesn't elevate the significance of velocity over projectile weight.  Then again, bullet construction makes a huge difference in its ability to transfer it's energy to the target.  With that said, the power level required to be consistently effective will vary significantly from range to range.

My experience has been that the .22WMR is a very marginal caliber and can be expected to ring its share of rams.  My .22 Hornet has proven to be a bit underpowered when driving a Sierra 55 SBT at a velocity somewhere around 1700-1750fps.  I used that load for a year and didn't ring a target, then last year I must have rung 5 rams and a turkey.  I will digress and say that I suspect that some of the reason for that is temperature inconsistency with WW296 because nearly all of the "sticky" targets occured early in the season during the March and April matches.  I am aware of other people using Sierra 52gr match BTHP driven about 2000fps to knock over field pistol targets at 200m (some crazy folks shoot big bore half size with their field pistol guns for practice and fun).  So that is your answer...not quite what you were looking for but maybe it gives you a little more insight to what is sufficient and what isn't.