Author Topic: which is more dangerous? (Read 1544 times)

myronman3 · « **on:** August 11, 2004, 01:39:03 PM »

with all the discussion about various calibers lately and what is an appropriate caliber for this and that, i have something for everyone to consider.
how many people are injured by deer in the course of a year? and how many by black bear?
oh sure, i like to respect bear and they do dredge up some primal thoughts. but really. the VAST majority of bears want nothing to do with any of us, whether we just shot them or if we cross paths unexpectedly. yeah, i know a deer couldnt eat you. but as jj hack said recently, we all should be more concerned with driving hazards a whole lot more than we worry about bears.
i guess my whole point is that folks tend to act like blackies behave like griz. let's give them the respect they deserve; but not let our imaginations run away with us.

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #1 on:** August 11, 2004, 03:07:22 PM »

I suppose that it all depends on where one lives and how one hunts.

If walking to my bear bait station I certainly want a handgun and or shotgun. There were bears there that had never seen a man and were certainly not afraid of me. The stayed around even after I had shot my bear. And, when my partner shot his one of us stood guard because they would not leave the area either.

Deer hunting the other day I accidently walked into a slamon stream full of fish. Bear trails were everywhere and it was the same bay as "The Bear That Won't Die" was shot. I really felt undergunned even with my .308.

In Alaska we have several bear attacks every year. The most publicized one last year, a salmon fisherman, the man will never see again with that was left of his face.

The best thing to carry is common sense. But, in reality, Mother Nature has her own stern code and is likely to mess your plans up at any moment. At least my stainless .44 mag will make it easier for the rescue crew to determine where I was killed if it happens.

Mikey · « **Reply #2 on:** August 12, 2004, 02:06:59 AM »

Gentlemen, Please. This thread deteriorated very rapidly and I am not happy with the direction it took :oops: . Shall we move on. Thank you both. Mikey.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 12, 2004, 02:12:26 AM »

Mikey you are correct. I deleted my posts. This will be my last response to this thread.

rickyp · « **Reply #4 on:** August 12, 2004, 02:43:11 AM »

where I hunt we don't have many bears so I don't worry about them at all.

I don't worry about deer attack, all the ones around me run at first sight of people

with all the hunters around me and the little hunting space, I worry more about them doing something that will hurt me ( and others).

tubbythetuba · « **Reply #5 on:** August 12, 2004, 03:08:00 AM »

I looked and could not find the site I was looking for, but: World wide, deer, and I suppose this includes the larger, harder charging members of the deer family, were supposed to have caused death on a level with sharks. Stinging insects, of course, are the most deadly thing in the world other than micro organisms and man himself. Bears get the headlines, but don't rate as high as quite a few others.

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** August 12, 2004, 04:02:01 AM »

I have deleted all posts in this thread that really shouldn't have been made so it is back to looking as it likely should have had tempers not flared. Let's let bygones be bygones guys.

jgalar · « **Reply #7 on:** August 12, 2004, 04:58:42 AM »

I don't intend to bend anyones nose and I stayed out of the ruckus until now...But I take my grade school kids (read bear and mountain lion bait)walking in the woods at my father's cabin in CO. I just feel an increased safety factor carrying something that goes boom. I also make them wear seat belts while in the car.

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2004, 05:26:58 AM »

Know of a case where a local hunter knocked a Deer down with his shotgun using slugs. Instead of approaching the downed animal from the side with gun at ready, he leaned it up against a tree & walked up to it.
The Deer jumped up and kicked him in the chest while making it's escape. It knocked our man down and winded him although he was lucky enough not to have suffered any broken ribs (or a kick in the Head).
After this happened, he had a heck of a time trying to find his camo-patterned shotgun that was leaning against a tree somewhere behind him.

This is not really an attack but would qualifiy as a reportable injury.
Other hunters in my area are reluctant to make a very long trail in the dark using doe-in-heat scent on foot pads during the rut.

Rmouleart · « **Reply #9 on:** August 12, 2004, 05:48:04 AM »

I watched a tape once about a hunter who stated his call worked the best and was going to show us how it works, he started calling along a ridge, after a few moments a few deer appeared, two does and one buck, he kept on calling, finally the buck came down the ridge and charged the hunter,he looked pissed off as well, bye the way he had no rifle;) the buck lifted the guy up ageist a fence, the hunter held his antlers to keep them from sinking into his body, finally the buck quite and backed off, the man jumped the fence, all red faced and ripped clothes, and says into the camera see this call works great LOL...
Just made me laugh, I could not believe the buck attacked him, the buck was strong lifting the man off the ground...The call must of been a challenge call LOL.
Years ago I was at my blind hunting whitetail deer, suddenly a huge buck is heading right to me, I waited for the right time to take him, about thirty yards away broadside, using my scope 300 Savage, the shot was perfect, right behind the shoulder, the buck at first ran away from me, then suddenly terned around throwing dirt everywhere and charged right at me, I took one more shot from the hip, due to no time to raise my rifle to aim, caught him in the neck, as he just missed running me over and travel maybe another ten yards, then drove his antlers into the ground with his butt up plowing till he died like I have seen bulls do, I always wondered if he was trying to get me before he perished LOL. Aim small hit small.RAMbo.

rickyp · « **Reply #10 on:** August 12, 2004, 08:04:01 AM »

people don't realize how tough a deer is. they see the cute little deer and think it could never hurt me. they never stop and think the things sticking out of it's head are not for holding hats :-D but for defending it's self.

for the guy that walked up to a wounded deer with out a firearm at the ready. I guess he learned 3 lessons that day
1) a deer can kick hard
2) always carry a firearm at the ready when approaching a downed animal
3) the camo pattern on his shotgun worked great

New Hampshire · « **Reply #11 on:** August 12, 2004, 11:29:22 AM »

When I go to the woods i go prepared for ANY kind of encounter, be it big 4 leg to small two leg. While the odds of me running into a bear a slim, and getting attacked even slimmer, I takes no chanes! Better to have and not need than not hae and be dead.
Brian M.

michbob · « **Reply #12 on:** August 12, 2004, 01:19:01 PM »

A few years ago up here in the north-central lower penninsula of Michigan, a fellow was attacked by one of the bucks in his "tame" herd of deer. It was at the peak of the rut. He sustained several serious wounds, the worst being caused by an antler tine that penetrated his...ahem, posterior and damaged his colon, setting off a long series of horrid infections. Tissue removal was involved.

I don't know if he ever recovered.

It wasn't a wild deer, but OUCH! The critters can cause some damage if they want to.

Michbob

Mikey · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2004, 02:49:22 AM »

A couple of years ago I viewed a video clip of a hunter stalking a whitetail buck. Both emerged from a cornfield at the same time, at about 20 feet distance from each other. The buck spotted the hunter and charged. He didn't use his horns, he just reared up on his hind feet and kicked the schmidt out of the hunter, knocking him down and stompin' him a bit, then took off. The buclk was too quick for the hunter and even though the hunter tried to use his gun to ward off the bucks hooves, it didn't work.

I'm not certain how/when/if bears go into rut the same way whitetail do, and would want to ask one of our resident bear experts about that, but a whitetail buck can cause a person a lot of damage with those hooves, and those antlers - they are his natural defense. I don't know which is the more frequent attacker, but I would think that if the bear is really upset, you are the one who might wind up on his dinner plate. It is not often that a deer hunter thinks that his hunt might wind up as a life or death situation for anyone other than the buck but you have to realize those animals know how to survive. Just my 2 cents worth here. Mikey.

New Hampshire · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2004, 05:51:56 AM »

From what I understand black bears only attack when you threaten their cubs (just being close to a cub is their idea of a threat,) or as an extreme last resort if cornered. Im pretty sure there are other odd occurences, but those are the main two. Like has been said most times they are likely to avoid you at all costs, no matter how small or big you are. Of course you can never always fully make sure a bear will not attack you. Thats why the close range heavy back-up.....just in case. But like I said, I worry about EVERYTHING in the woods being a potential hazrd and plan accordingly.
Brian M.

IntrepidWizard · « **Reply #15 on:** August 13, 2004, 06:00:09 AM »

#1 killer of man by a mammal is man,next#2 are Deer.of other animals the Honey bee is way up there and Sharks,Rattlers,Black widows and Bears are way down at the bottom of man killers.

Gallahad · « **Reply #16 on:** August 16, 2004, 01:07:34 PM »

I was putting some corn out by my tree stand here in WI several years back, and a black bear came right up to the edge of the clearing I had made for my stand. It proceded to grunt at me. I unarmed, left ! I think he just smelled the corn, and wanted it, but he was NOT afraid of me! I always thought that they would do anything to get away from people, and for the most part I think they do, but they are creatures of instinct. Always looking for opportunity for food. I don't want to be an opportunity for a bear! I try to remember to bring a sidearm with me when im going "out". If a curious bear did hear a large caliber revolver go off I think Hed take off, but ya got 5 more just in case. Black bears do eat red meat, i seen one take a fawn.

Camp Cook · « **Reply #17 on:** August 18, 2004, 06:23:06 AM »

I live in British Columbia, Canada. We have a black bear population here of app. 165,000 which is half of all the bears in Canada and one of the highest concentrations in the world.
I agree that female bears attack to protect their young but I can't imagine cornering one so I wouldn't worry about that at all. In my experiences with female blacks with young they usually send them up a tree and stay their distance from me.
Now I always have a gun with me and act fairly aggressive towards any black bears and in 25 years of working in the bush have never personally had any real problems with them. I shot one 300lbs male that was running at me @ about 10 yards but I don't really think he new I was standing there.
I think that I would be more worried about a male black bear because if they attack you it because their hungry and he wants you for his dinner.
Cam

Rmouleart · « **Reply #18 on:** August 18, 2004, 06:44:13 AM »

Any animal is dangerous if cornered or thinks its cornered, I was deer hunting in my blind a year ago, first thing in the morning, I heard all kinds of noise inside the tree line, I could here something climbing down a oak tree, sounded like a small bear, but it was two coons walking back to back heading right to my blind, I was bow hunting, the coons got so close and was curious to see what my blind was, one of the coons started coming in my blind, man that got my hair on my neck standing, all I had was a bow, and a knife on my side and a MarkII in my holster, but I have a release on so I could not get to it in time, luckily the raccoon changed its mind terned and walked away to the other coon and they both left the area, But I bet if he got into my blind, and got scared he would of chewed up and down me like a ear of corn lol, thats what went through my mind as it all was happing, I guess if he came all the way in I would of jump over and out of my blind and got away from that big coon, I have had many close call with animals in the field, most of the time I stay perfectly still and let the animal pass through the area, I have had mice and squirrels walk over my boots at a stand, with out knowing what I was, I had two foxes walk up to me and they stared at me for a good long time, walking around me, trying to figure out what I was, I never moved a inch, not even my eye's...never let them see your eye move or the jig is up, after a while they forgot about me and continued to hunt. I find it exciting when that happens, I have deer within touching distance quite a few times in my life, as long as you don't move and your scent is at bay they never know your there, I just hate when they walk around your blind side;) Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

Old Griz · « **Reply #19 on:** August 21, 2004, 07:19:38 PM »

:cb2: I saw a hunting video promoting a bunch of different game calls, and two teenaged boys were blowing on a fawn in distress call which worked better and faster than they expected. They weren't attacked, but they were bout run over by three or four does that were flat out flying. One was knocked down, but not hurt in any way. They just thought it was great--and so did the folks at Primos!

Camp Cook · « **Reply #20 on:** August 23, 2004, 05:19:49 AM »

The first time I saw a fawn bleet used was in the Queen Charlotte Islands about 25 years ago. It was 2 pieces of wood wired together with an elastic band in the middle and made by an old Haida Indian and given to my logger friend. First logging cut that we entered he pulled this call out of his pocket and started blowing on it like crazy. I thought he was nuts....... that was until the hillside started to move with all of the Sitka Blacktail does running towards us. One of the most amazing things that I ever seen with deer.
Cam