180gr or 200gr .357 hunting loads

[wildwillie]

Hey y'all,
I'm new to the forum and reloading and was wondering if any of y'all had a good deer load for .357 using either 180gr XTPs or 200gr cast.  Velocities (if available) and other pertinent info would be greatly appreciated.  I've been told that I need at least 500 ft-lbs of KE at the muzzle to cleanly take a deer.  The powders I have available are W236, W231, H110, and HP38.  The revolver I will be using it in is a Ruger Bisley 7.5."  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Graybeard]

Unless 500 ft-lbs of KE at the muzzle is a requirement placed on you by the state forget it.

I don't know who it was long ago that came up with these stupid KE figures for minimum to cleanly kill game but they were (pardon my French) an idiot. Paper energy kills nothing. Damage to the CNS or tissue damage resulting in blood loss which shuts down the CNS is the ONLY thing that kills game. Nothing more and nothing less.

Magazine writers have parroted those KE figures for years as if they were handed down by GOD to Moses along with the tablets. Just proves to me how little honest thought goes into their babbling. I have finally seen one of them come clean and admit to the world he thinks it is all balderdash. That would be Dave Scovill in the latest article in either Handloader or Rifle magazine. Don't remember which as he writes for both.

Now as to which bullet you'll get plenty of differening views on that. I've never used the .357 Mag. on deer and may never as I have way too many more suitable choices and thus just never seem to get around to it. But IF I were to be the one chosing between your two choices I'd go with the 180 over a max book load of H110/W296. Those are the same powder under two different names.

I've known folks to shoot deer with the .357 with completely satisfactory performance using bullets of 125 and 158 grains both. Seemed to work just fine when bullet placement was proper and distance was kept reasonable. I've seen the dead deer so am quite sure it can be done.

[Rmouleart]

Greybeard I like the Bush & Cheney thing at the bottom of your screen.
There is no other choice in my mind if we all want to keep our rights to bare arms. Make the right choice. Bush all the way. Take care. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

[Gregory]

The powders I have available are W236....

Are you sure you don't mean W296?

Is the 200 gr cast bullet a round nose or SWC design?  I'd stay away from a RN for deer.  I've taken two deer with the 357 caliber handgun.
One was using a 170 gr Kieth SWC bullet out of a 357 Magnum case at 1200 or so fps.  The other was with the Horn 180 XTP out of a 357 Maximum case at 1650 fps.  Both worked fine on filling my antlerless tags with small deer.
I'd follow GB's advice on powder choice.

[44hunter]

My brother uses a 357 with a red dot for deer. I load the Hornaday 180gr with a maximum load of H110. All of his kills under 40 yards have been clean. Last season he took a small buck at 50 to 60 yards shot placement was good but penetration was less than perfect.

[Mikey]

wildwillie:  Welcome to the forum and gald to have you aboard.

I have one favorite load for the 200 gn SWC in 357 magnum - it is 12.4 grains of WW296 that rates from the factory at 1335'/sec from a ?" barrel (probably a bit shorter than yours).  I find this load very accurate in my 3.5" S&W and have used it before for silhouettes and a couple of whitetail.  You can expect complete pass-through at 50 yds and busted bones if you place it there.  

Winchester has a couple of loads for the 200 gn 357.  5.5 of 231 gives you 1060'/sec at 42,500 C.U.P. pressure.  The old 630 load of 10.8 grains gave you 1270'/sec at 40K C.U.P., although 630 has been discontinued.  The 12.4 grains of 296 for 1335'/sec gives only 35K C.U.P., making it the easiest shooting load of the three.  

I think your post has a typo - you said you had W236 powder - is this 296 - if so then you have all the fixin's for some good shooting.  

BTW - using the 200 gn slug from a 4" Model 19 over 12.2 of IMR 4227 for only 1020'/sec I was still able to knock over the ram at 200 yds (when I could still see what the hay I was shooting at - lol), so that 200 grain slug in 357 has a lot of 'carry'.  

Good luck and let us know how it goes.  HTH.  Mikey.

[wildwillie]

y'all have been most helpful...and yes, it is W296 not 236... my bad.  Preciate the help and I'll let y'all know how it goes.  I'll be going down to the lower part of the state for some handgun hunting next weekend...so I guess I have my work cut out for me at the range this week.

[deerhunter]

I have never used my .357 on deer, and I would think anything 158 grains or above would be ok as long as it penetrated deep enough.  But there used to be an outdoor writer named Shimek i think, that used it a lot with 125 grain bullets and had a lot of success with it.  I'll see if I can find any of my old magazines with his articles about using them.

[cbagman]

Hey Wildwillie from Easley.. I was there yesterday.. Hail from Simpsonville myself.. I used to go to Colleton county and get et up by skeeters and bake in the September heat for years, and now just work on my loads until October and hunt up here where it is cooler...
 I use a 170g Sierra HP in the .357 for revolver and carbine.. I do shoot the 180g XTP in a .357 Bain and Davis pistol barrel.  from Cbagman

[wildwillie]

cbagman,
I live about 1 mile as the crow flies from the Pickens shooting range so I'm there alot.  I also do alot of bowhunting at Fant's grove near Clemson but have yet to gun hunt up here.  My cousin has a farm in Williamsburg Co. that I gun hunt at but since it's a long drive from here, I don't get down there much...also being in college doesn't help much.  Do you just pistol hunt?
WW

[cbagman]

:-) >This is getting away from strictly handgun hunting a little but I start out with bow, then flintlock muzzleloader, then All kinds of centerfire arms. I have shot about half my deer with T/C Contenders, mostly pistol but I have 3 carbine barrels.. I also use Ruger single actions and S&W Classics in .44 mag.. I have a lease in Cross Keys and another down near Chappels in the edge of Newberry county.. I usually go about 42 times a season.. I am not opposed to using a lever action or a bolt action but I always have a handgun with me.. Maybe I am a little bit of a heretic..  A group of us own a 9 acre range in Gray Court and we have muzzleloading matches there on the third Sunday of the month.. The club is the Piedmont Muzzleloaders.. Us owners shoot modern guns there when we are not doing primitive shoots... I went more and more to  pistols the last five years for deer but have gotten deer with pistols for 15 years as an occasional thing. I did not have enough confidence to go strictly handgun until I got a 12 inch barreled Contender in .30 Herret about seven years ago. I got two or three that year with it and feel completely comfortably with only a handgun now. I generally have a pistol in a Bandito rig and a long gun in the evenings.. Lately the long gun is a T/C carbine in either .35 Rem or 7x30 Waters for the last 20 minutes of light...In the morning I will take a T/C scoped pistol and maybe another short gun on my hip..  I don't own a muzzleloading barrel for Contenders.. They don't make a flintlock.  From cbagman

[wildwillie]

10-4.  I'm kinda the same way except I've never tried muzzleloading.  I've taken a hog and several deer with my SRH in 44mag.  I just got into handloading a few years ago and I really enjoy it.  So much for hunting today and Saturday :cry: