Author Topic: Paper patched bullets for muzzleloader (Read 2754 times)

zrifleman · « **on:** September 28, 2004, 05:19:29 PM »

This discussion needs a shot in the arm. So I thought I would share my latest project with you. I built a 45 cal muzzle with 1-18 twist to shoot paper patched bullets. Bore diameter is .450 so I took the hollow based bullets I have been swaging for my Sharps and rolled them in sizing lube and ran them thru a .450 lubrisizer die (they were .456 dia.) Now I can thumb start them--not bullet starter needed. With 80 grs of Goex 2fg and a plastic card wad over the powder, I am shooting 5 shot groups just over 1" at 50 yds and just over 2" at 100 yds--using iron sights. So far 500 gr bullets out perform 420 gr bullets. I made this rifle a 2 barrel set. The other barrel is a .40 cal with 1-16 twist. I have only had 1 brief session with it using 60 grs of Goex 3fg and a PP bullet weighing 400 grs and sized to .400. At 50 yds all shots want to cut the same hole. I have mounted a 20x target scope on the barrel before doing any more experimenting. I am anxious to try some Swiss BP when I can get some. So far with about 100 rds fired with these thumb started bullets there have been no flyers or unexpected inaccuracy. I would encourage anyone who can follow what I did, to do so. You won't be disappointed-this should work in a variety of muzzleloaders designed to shoot slug or conicals.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #1 on:** September 29, 2004, 04:29:41 AM »

Are you the one who cobbled together the long-range-muzzle loader from a .58 caliber Hawken?

I saw a .54 T/C Hawken at the pawn shop the other day and thought Hmm. It's 1" across the flats. I've always ogled over the Parker Hale Volunteer, but could never get past the price. How much did you invest in the barrel?

My rifle range goes out to 600 yards. So far I've only got a .54 ball thrower and a couple .357mag lever actions - nothing to really make use of the range. It's hard to justify several hundred dollars just because your range goes out to 600 yards though.

Just curious though. What purpose does the paper patch play in your particular scenario? With just 80 gr of FFg and 420 - 500 gr bullets would you get leading with naked lead bullets? Most muzzle loaders can tolerate soft lead conicals.

45 2.1 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 29, 2004, 08:03:23 AM »

Try the load without the wad and see what happens, wads can blow up into the hollow base and mess accuracy up.

zrifleman · « **Reply #3 on:** September 29, 2004, 03:29:09 PM »

The gun is not "cobbled" together!! I used the stock from a Navy Arms Hawken which I modified. The only other original part is the butt plate. The barrels cost $105-$110 each for the barrel only. With breech plug, tang, underrib, entry pipe, rod thimbles, ramrod, about $200 each. Paper patching allows you to use a soft lead bullet and not lead the barrel. A naked soft lead bullet would probably lead your barrel. As I pointed out a grooved lubed and sized bullet seems to work almost as well. As far as using a plastic wad--it allows me to compress the black powder without battering the nose of the bullet. I have recovered the wads and they most likely "protect" the base of the bullet. In a test for Buffalo Bullets conicals they were much more accurate with the wad than without.

45 2.1 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 30, 2004, 02:05:33 AM »

Trying it without the wad was just a suggestion. I and others shoot the old muzzleloading match rifles, some with wads and some without, but I got better accuracy without. I used a flatbased bullet and patched to bore diameter with no sizing after patching. Sizing a patched bullet sometimes messes up accuracy, but you do what you want.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #5 on:** September 30, 2004, 06:13:38 AM »

Sorry, by "cobbled" I did not mean to imply anything about workmanship. I just meant a gun that had lot's of new parts.

I understand about the soft lead shmeering off in the bore, but I know the .50 caliber muzzle loaders shoot soft lead conicals all the time and I read almost nothing about leadding on the muzzle loader forums.

With your twist rate, I imagine you'll be shooting heavy bullets and therefore the velocity won't be much higher than a .50 Maxi-ball.

I have a hunch that twist rate plays a big part in the necessity of paper patches. Possibly the fast twist tends to really wrench on soft lead? Especially heavy bullets that resist turning.

zrifleman · « **Reply #6 on:** September 30, 2004, 08:01:23 PM »

Paper patching serves the same purpose as the copper jacket with at least one exception. A soft lead PP bullet that starts at bore diameter will upset and fill the grooves. I like the fact that I can make a high quality bullet that is versatile. I started casting and swaging PP bullets almost 30 yrs ago and still feel like a beginner--I keep coming up with new ideas all the time. 45 2.1, with all due respect--you can size a bullet down without much change in accuracy. I run the swaged bullets (.448") thru a .446" sized die. then I patch them up to .452", roll them on a lube pad and run them thru a .450" sizer die. At no time is this a hard push. Next thing to try is a flat tail punch instead of the hollow base punch. After a long session at the range today shooting at 100 yds and 200 yds, the PP bullets have a decided edge over the cast bullets. This project is still a work in progress.