Nikon or Leopold?

[victorcharlie]

Hello....I'm a new user, but have lurked for a few days and enjoy reading the forums.

I have been looking at scopes for my Marlin 1895 45.70 and am most interested in Nikon and Leopold.  Specifically, the Nikon Monarch 1.5X7X32, Monarch Gold, Leopold Vari X I and Vari X III 1.75X6X32.

I guess my questions are:  As there is a significant price difference between the models, is there a big enough difference in quality to justify the additional price?  (in the $190 range vs the $400 range).  Will I gain enough in the performance in the higher priced scope on my 45.70 or would I be just as well off with the lower end line?  Do you think I'll use the additional features on the high end models?

Having learned that Leopold is the only true US made scope company left, and they seem to be equal price or less, featured up about the same or in some cases better, I'm leaning toward the Leopolds, as made in the USA is very important to me.

I can afford either, but don't want to buy something I don't need or won't use........What do you guys think?  Oh yea....My 47 year old eyes arn't what the used to be....I'm not sure I see well enough to tell the difference....or will I?
Thanks,  VC

[DeerMeadowFarm]

My advice would be to buy the Leupold. I have a 1.5 – 5x Vari-X III on my deer rifle and a 1 – 4x Vari – X II on my shotgun. They are great scopes! The Vari-X III is also noticeably better than the II in my opinion. Nikon makes some good optics too; my cousin’s kid in Maine put one on his 7400; it’s good, but when you look through his scope and mine, the Leupold wins every time.
As far as spending the money there are two ways of thinking. My friend in Maine thinks this way: “I only have one month to hunt deer, why spend a bunch of money on a really good scope; this one is good enough”.
My way of thinking is this: “I take a week off to hunt deer with my rifle, if I’m lucky and work hard I’ll get one chance to tag my deer; I want the best equipment I can afford to minimize any error because I’ll have to wait an entire year to try again”.
My $.02

[smoky]

I vote for Leupold, but both are quality scopes.  Leupold is my personal favorite (I have 5 of them).  My ulitmate answer would be figure out what you can or want to spend, and buy a scope that YOU LIKE in that price range.

Smoky

[victorcharlie]

Thanks guys!  I can spend about what ever I need to to get what I want.  I can find the lower priced scopes around here locally, but it's hard to find the higher priced models in order to compare them side to side.  I've got to say, the Leopold Rifleman series is certainly bright and sharp, and the price is right.  I was planning on getting on of the higher end scopes but after looking at the rifleman I'm having second thoughts about needing to spend more.   I'm still trying to find a place where I can see both at the same time!

If the Vari-X-III is far better and I can tell the difference then I'm sold!

I appreciate you helping me reason through this.  Hard to order something sight unseen.

By the way.....the Leopold life time warranty......Anyone know what exactly that covers?  I couldn't find the warranty info on Leopold's web site..  Thanks,  VC

[Bullseye]

I have the 2-7x VXI on my Marlin 45-70.  It ahs worked well for me.

[smoky]

Remember that the glass is only part of the equation.  I would speculate that most scope's glass is good enough for the majority of the big game hunters needs.  I would also speculate that most scopes fail because of their inability (inherently or over time) to hold zero.  The internal workings of a scope are just as important as the quality of glass that you look through.  Thats when a scope like Leupold comes to the front.

Smoky

[Mac11700]

I had one of the VX1 2x7x33 on a 1895GS and it was a nice little scope for the money....and I just took a Weaver Grand Slam back and got a VX111 for my Weatherby Mag it's a 3.5x10x40...it's got great eye relief and is definatly brighter than the VX1...as far as the VX1 standing up to heavy loads for the 45-70...I had over 2000 rounds thru mine...and had them in the Leupolds Quick Release rings too...never had any problem with the zero shifting...some interesting facts about them that I just got off of Leupolds site....


VX1 2x7x33 weight 10,8 oz   Vari X 111 1.75 x 6x32....11.2 oz

Field of veiw with the VX1 at 100 yds on 2x...43.2'... VX111....51.7
field of veiw at 100yds on 7x...17.3'.....at 100 on6x....17.0

Eye relief...VX1  (2X)  4.2"-----( 7X) 3.7"
.................VX111..(1.75X)...4.40"......(6X)  3.20"


VX1's are tough little scopes for the money....not as bright as the VX111 and  have friction rings instead of nice knobs you can do by hand like whats on the VX111....you'll have to look thru both and see which one works the best for you.

The 45-70 can be a heck of a recoiling gun with some loads...get as much eye relief as you can get...I won't be wasting my money or time on any others scopes that don't have it .... anymore...been there ...done that...


Mac

[flintlock]

Two more points...the new V-X II..now has what used to be the old V-X III
glass...so they are brighter...I have 3 of the older VX-II...and they are still bright enough to make clean shots past legal shooting time...also...two of my VX-IIs were returned to get the heavy Duplex reticle installed...Leupold won't do this for their Rifleman scopes...I'm almost 49...have had laser retina surgery on my shooting eye and that heavy Duplex would work just great on a 45/70...flintlock

PS...the heavy Duplex was about $80.00

[Graybeard]

The Leupold scopes mentioned are certainly good scopes and do have long eye relief in case you need it with heavy loads in the .45-70. But honestly if you ever look thru a Bushnell Elite 4200 1.5-6 you'll agree it is the best of the lower powered variables.

But in all honesty I seriously doubt you'll ever really NEED the bit of extra a top of the line scope provides over what the scopes like the Elite 3200 and VX-II lines do. They are better today than the scopes I used up until just a few years ago and that includes the older Leupold Vari-X III line from years back. Never felt a need for more in any legal hunting situation I've been in.

[Zachary]

I have an Elite 3200 1.5x-4.5x-32mm mounted on my .375H&H Mag, and it has performed flawlessly.  It tracks well, and hold it's zero perfectly.  Hard to believe it's only a $150 or so dollar scope, but it's great.  

So if I can use it on a .375H&H without any problems (including eye relief), then you can surely use it on a lesser recoiling .45-70.

Zachary

[victorcharlie]

Wow!  Thanks for all the replies.  Having looked at the Bushnell 4200 series online, I'm still leaning toward the Leopold for several reasons.  

First, It's a small US company.  I like that.  I like the idea that if I have a problem with it I can call the company and speak to someone that speaks the same language.  America has almost been run out of the optics business, and it seems from what  you guys are telling me, they have a great product that is priced with the much larger Japanese companys product.  The idea that Joe might keep his job another few days appeals to me.  From my point of view, it's a no brainer.

I have looked but am unable to tell if the V-X-III in the 1.7X6X33 comes with the illuminated optic.  Any of you using the illuminated optic and what's your thoughts on this?

I would still like to lay out all 5 brands side by side and compare them.  Hopefully I'll be able to do this.

[Mac11700]

As far as thier  illuminated scopes go...here's the closet I could find on their web site ...you'll have to pick the scope...but this one would work for you and your 45-70


http://www.leupold.com/products/products_specs.asp


VX-III 1.5-5x20mm Illuminated Reticle

Select a Finish & Reticle Style:
Part No. 54906
   
            

Product Specifications
Actual Magnification: 1.5(1.5x) 4.5(5x)
Length (in): 9.3
Eyepiece Length (in): 3.2
Objective Length (in): -------
Objective Diameter (in): 1.0
Eyepiece Diameter (in): 1.6
Tube Diameter: 30mm
Weight: 14.0 oz. / 397 grams
Eye Relief (in): 4.4(1.5x) 3.6(5x)
Eye Relief (mm): 113(1.5x) 93(5x)
Obj. Lens Diameter: 0.8in / 20mm
Max. Adjustment @ 100 yds (in): 65
Max. Adjustment @ 100 m (cm): 181
FOV @ 100 yds (ft): 65.7(1.5x) 23.7(5x)
FOV @ 100 m (m): 21.9(1.5x) 7.9(5x)
   

Ring Spacing
Max. Mount Ring Spacing
(in): 5.8
Front Ring Space (in): 2.1
Rear Ring Space (in): 2.5

Looks like it would be a winner for the 45-70

I haven't had that much experiance with the  illuminated scopes...just red dot sites...


Mac

[Graybeard]

Not at all sure where you got the idea that Leupold is a small company or a truly ONLY American company. A large part of their product line is made overseas and I think all of their glass comes from overseas. They also are not a wholly owned company but are a part of a huge congomerate of companies. I believe that Alliant is the current owner of them.

Buy whatever you wish. Bushnell is no less an American company than Leupold and likely no larger. AND they are actually not owned by any other larger corporation to my knowledge. True their product is primarily if not entirely made overseas but then really pretty much every company gets a large share of their materials overseas these days. As I understand it Burris is no less an American Manufacturer than is Leupold.

But buy what you like for whatever reason you like. Just be sure that you are aware of the facts so you can make a decision based on facts not supposition.

[7magWoodsman]

I am a Nikon fan myself but I applaud you wanting to keep your money here in the USA...Burris is also assembled in USA so maybe give them a look...I had a Leupold fog internally but they did replace it, my buddy has been using it since then with no problems and he absolutely loves it...My Nikon Monarch has roughly 2000 shots of 7mm Rem. Mag. and it is still holding up like it did when it was new...

[Mac11700]

Not at all sure where you got the idea that Leupold is a small company or a truly ONLY American company. A large part of their product line is made overseas and I think all of their glass comes from overseas. They also are not a wholly owned company but are a part of a huge congomerate of companies. I believe that Alliant is the current owner of them.
 
Buy whatever you wish. Bushnell is no less an American company than Leupold and likely no larger. AND they are actually not owned by any other larger corporation to my knowledge. True their product is primarily if not entirely made overseas but then really pretty much every company gets a large share of their materials overseas these days. As I understand it Burris is no less an American Manufacturer than is Leupold.
 
But buy what you like for whatever reason you like. Just be sure that you are aware of the facts so you can make a decision based on facts not supposition.

 
GB... No disrepect or anything...but..I copied this directly from their web site...they aren't a small company...but certainly not a huge one either...

After many decades of growth, this family-owned firm is stronger and more financially sound than ever. More than 600 people are employed at our 150,000 sq. ft. plant. And demand for our product lines has consistently grown at a dramatic rate. Now, Leupold & Stevens is a dominating market leader with worldwide distribution.

 
Nothing on their site to say they are part of another company.....but I do wonder if they are actually grinding their own lenes or importing them...I guess that would take actually going on a tour of the plant to find out....anyone done that lately?
 
 
Mac

[victorcharlie]

Thanks Mac, and sorry Greybeard.  Bushnell is a division of Bausch and Lamb who's a publicly traded company and listed on the NYSE.  They may very well be an american made scope, but my bet is they are manufactured overseas....Globalazation ya know....new world order.  I really don't know.  Tell ya what.  I'm headed to Benton this morning and their web site shows several models in stock.  I will look to see where they are made and let you know.  I will be looking at the 4200 line.  

There is something I just don't like about this Globalazation thing.....where are my grand children going to work?  Your right though Greybeard....It's happening and there doesn't seem to be anything we can do about it.  I'm trying to keep my money as close to home as possible....

Something else.......ole Bama boy.....How's the football team down there this year?  GO VOLS!

[7magWoodsman]

Something else.......ole Bama boy.....How's the football team down there this year?  GO VOLS!

I was having a good morning till I read that
GO WILDCATS!!!
GO CRIMSON TIDE!!!
GO VANDERBILT!!!
GO ANYBODY CEPT' THE VOLS!!!    :-D

[Graybeard]

After sleeping on it over night I think it wasn't Alliant that I heard bought out Leupold but a foreign company. Either Beretta or the French folks who own Browning and Winchester. As I recall I saw this in a magazine and can't recall which one. I'm not going digging for it but that stronger financial postion they mention is I believe a result of being bought out by a foreign company. No I'm not 100% sure on this. Just going on recollection and second hand info from a magazine.

I never said Bushnell made anything in the US. Quite the contrary. To my knowledge all of their optics are made overseas. Bushnell owns B&L not the other way around. They are now ending all B&L branded sportsman's optics. Matter of fact none exist already. They will be coming out with the replacement for what I think was the last one when they come out this fall with the replacement Elite binoculars.

[victorcharlie]

ok 7mag.....lonesome at the top.......Never did get an answer from Greybeard......possibly an Alburn fan?

Back to the scopes, I hope......leaving soon to go have a look see......

[7magWoodsman]

I can afford either, but don't want to buy something I don't need or won't use........What do you guys think?  Oh yea....My 47 year old eyes arn't what the used to be....I'm not sure I see well enough to tell the difference....or will I?
Thanks,  VC

I think a particular scope will fit you best, I think you will know which one you want the second you look through it, and yes I think you will be able to tell a difference...Since price is not a real issue try to find a Zeiss Conquest and look through it, it is assembled here in the states and is a very nice piece, after you have found the two or three you like best ask to be taken to a dark section of the store(wharehouse) to judge the "low light capabilites" of those models...Good Luck, be careful and have fun.

[Graybeard]

...Never did get an answer from Greybeard......possibly an Alburn fan?

Didn't notice a question addressed to me so really don't know what you're talking about.

But for the record I've not watched or listened to any kinda of game played with any kind of ball or watched vehicles go round and round on a track in over 20 years. I have zero interest in such things. Could care less about any of the college stuff. I graduated from Jacksonville State University so IF I were to care it would be about them and to be honest I haven't a clue if they've even won a game in the last 10 years. What folks call "sports" do not appeal to me in the slightest. I have far better things to do with my time.

[victorcharlie]

Just got back from Benton.  They didn't have any of the 4300 series Bushnell's in stock.  I did compare the VX1, VXIII, and Nikon golds.  In my humble opinion, VXIII is by far the better of the three, and that's what I walked out the door with.  Honestly, I liked the VXI better than the Nikon Gold as far as optics go.

I got the 1895 at the gun smith being fitted with a limbsaver recoil pad, so I'm debating whether or not to drop off the scope and rings and have him mount it or just do it myself.  Anyway, I can't wait to get the combo back and see what it'll do.  This is my first big bore although I've wanted one for some time now.  It's a hoot to shoot it!

Right now, shooting factory sights, and Remington 405 grs.  I had one group clip 3/4 inch at 40 yards.  The other 2 groups at 40 yards were about 1 1/2", but I was learning the factory iron sites.  The only 3 shot group at 100 yards was 5 1/4", but that's why the need for the scope....I couldn't see the bulls eye and just had to aim for the center.....Also ordered a couple of boxes of PMC HA 350 gn +p+.......Heck, it's fun just asking for the ammo around here......I always seem to get about the same reply..." Going Bear hunting"?  Seems most people around here think it's way to much gun for deer, but in deep woods and heavy brush here in the Tennesse hills....well....seems about perfect to me!  I'm hoping to improve the 100 yard group to 2" or less....seems doable to me!

Thanks much for all the advise fellows.....enjoyed it....and Grey beard......it's much to easy to get a rise out of you......You have a great site!  I'll be hanging around if you don't run me off!!!

[7magWoodsman]

I'm debating whether or not to drop off the scope and rings and have him mount it or just do it myself.

I say do it yourself, the gunsmith ain't shootin' it. and even if he is, he ain't the one depending on it out in DixieLand!

Happy Shooting and Hunting. Stay Safe.